Ann

How much time have you spent talking to your teens or tweens about pornography? What about just talking to them about sex in general? And I mean the details – the why, where, who, how – whatever. I’m not here to judge – I know now that I didn’t do enough talking – not by a long shot.

Talking about sex and pornography with your kids, and using the necessary filtering and monitoring is what will help protect them and help them develop a healthy relationship with their sexuality.

And talking about sex is what my guest today, Amy Lang, has been doing since 1991 – yes, she’s been talking about penises and vaginas and what goes where – all the things – for a very long time, and she knows what she’s talking about – especially when it comes to how parents need to talk to their kids, teens and tweens about all this stuff.

She’s written books on how to talk to kids and tweens about sex, she hosts a podcast about the same thing and even teaches professionals, sexual abuse prevention training. She has all the degrees and the experience – believe me, you need to believe her. So, stay right there, we’re about to talk about (s e x).

This is Speaking of Teens, the podcast that helps parents who are struggling to find peace and connection with their teens. My name is Ann Coleman; I’m an attorney turned parent educator and a mom who has been there - and I’m on a mission to help you build a stronger relationship and decrease the conflict with your kid so you can help them grow into the young adult they’re meant to be.

I started out by asking Amy how old kids generally are these days when they’re first exposed to online pornography.

 

Amy

A good question. So here's the main thing with the porn thing is that most parents think, my kid would never, they would never look at it. They wouldn't seek it out. If they saw it, they would stop watching. And sure, you can think that, but no kid makes it to 18 without seeing it. It is part of childhood, unfortunately.

 

Amy

The average age of exposure reported is about 10, 11, 12. But that's reported. And most kids don't tell. If I had to guess, I think it's more like nine. It could be younger, because I've had consultations with parents who have five-year-olds that see it. Like one little guy, well, yeah, one little guy, it was over the holidays, and he was really interested in birth.

 

Amy

And so they were looking at still photographs of births and they might have looked at some videos with his mom. And then she left him with the iPad thinking, you know, all was well. Probably for 10 or 15 minutes she came back and he clutched the iPad to his chest. And she's like, OK. And so of course, he had made his way to birth, or to porn, because it's a short trip in that circumstance. And she said, I never even imagined.

 

Amy

So it happens innocently. They're Googling something and they end up looking at porn. It's funny because I was just trying to find a word or a phrase to Google that would get me to porn. Like if I was in a kid head, I couldn't get anywhere. But if you're a kid and you don't know anything about sex, you put sex in and the first thing you see is Pornhub.

 

Ann

Right, oh well, you know, and I was listening to somebody, I think it was Hunter Clark Fields who said her daughter put in spanking because the little girl heard the parents talking about spanking because she didn't even know what it was because they don't spank. And she typed in spanking and found it, obviously. You know, but it is amazing that the innocent things that they can put in, that they can find it.

I told Amy I didn’t even consider that my child could have been looking at porn back in 2012 when he was a 12-year-old. I’d spot check him when he was on his laptop watching YouTube. It never even occurred to me that he’d Google anything that would send him over to the dark side.

I wasn’t aware of any blocking software then and I didn’t even think we needed it. I asked Amy if there’s anything you can do to make sure your younger kids aren’t exposed to porn in the first place.

 

Amy

You don't. You can't. Nope. We're talking log cabin, Montana, no electricity. It is just absolutely not possible, unless you live a lifestyle where your kids are so restricted that they don't interact with other children because other children have phones. So the best thing you can do, just like for the sex talks, is to prepare them. Assume they're going to see it. Prepare them. And the best thing you can do to help them

 

Amy

prepare them is to talk to them about sex. They need to know what it is. And that's a conversation we could have for days. They need to know about sex. And because the reason for that is when they are exposed, they'll know what it is, they'll know that sex, they'll have a context for it, and they'll have healthy, accurate information as opposed to what they're gonna see in the land of porn. So like I said, average age of exposure is probably nine. And a couple of things you can do is just talk about it.

 

Amy

And say, you know what, you can see videos of naked people online, people having sex, if they know what that is. It's called porn or pornography. Not for kids can be really scary and confusing. It can be really violent and upsetting. And, you know, the rule is that you need to stop watching. Come find one of us. You won't be in trouble. And tell us because it can be really upsetting. We want to make sure you're OK. And you just lay the groundwork.

And then you talk about, do you know anyone who's seen it? Have you seen it? You just have to be super casual. Like, how do you like your ice cream? Do you know anyone who's seen porn? Because we get worked up because it's scary. And if you haven't looked at it, Google Sex. Click on Pornhub. Look at it and imagine you're 10. And it's highly motivating.

 

Amy

You can't unsee things, so you can't unsee things. And I only do this a couple times a year because I just feel like I need to check. Is it so easy? Totally, 100%. And it pisses me off.

I was just curious here because – I can imagine many kids that might run across porn by mistake and be so freaked out they’d immediately turn it off and I can see others that would be like – whoa – what’s that – look – and start bringing all their friends over to share. So, I asked, what normally happens?

 

Amy

Well, it depends on the personality, right? So most kids are like, what the hell? That is super gross and stop looking. Some kids are like, what the hell? That's super gross. I can't stop looking. And most kids are the first version. Some kids are the second version. If puberty is in the mix, like with tweens and teens, then it's going to be harder.

 

Amy

more likely that they'll want to watch it because it is sexually stimulating. It does feel good to see it. And in my mind, super gross. But that's another reason why you say, you won't be in trouble. You can tell me. And also being really clear, if you think you have a problem, just tell me. We'll get you some help. Or if you're worried about a friend, just tell me. We'll get them some help. And it's hard because you're like,

 

Amy

I talked to you about sex, I talked to you about porn, and you're looking at it anyway. Like how did this happen? Natural curiosity. Their friend sends them a link.

So, I want to reiterate what she just said here. If your kid looks at porn, whether they went looking for it or happened across it and didn’t avert their eyes but kept looking, there’s nothing wrong with them – it’s a natural curiosity and even more so after puberty. But I did ask Amy, what if a kid’s watching it and you don’t find out, and they keep watching it, is it common that it becomes a real problem?

Amy

Again, it's kind of a personality thing. So if someone is using it, like I just had a conversation with a mom and her kid is now 16. And they found out he was looking at it when he, I think he was 10 or so. And they're like, oh my god, horrified, stop doing that. It's not OK or safe. They didn't let him have a phone, a smartphone. He's got a flip phone. So he still has a flip phone because they caught him. He snuck a computer. And that kind of stuff so he could watch it. A classmate taught him how to download a VPN onto a school computer, which is a private browser thing, so he could watch it. And then so now she's really worried because he takes the super gross. He takes the computer into the bathroom, so you know what. And then he casually watches porn in the morning while he's getting dressed.

 

Amy

and ready for school. And so that's a lot of porn from a really young age. And that's what they know about, kind of. So I suggested therapy. So again, it just kind of depends. But the thing is that because you can't predict, right? I mean, if your kid is neurodiverse, like ADHD or is autistic or whatever, they tend to have a different relationship with sexuality and a lot of things and can get hyper-focused, right? And unfortunately, this can be a thing that they get hyper-focused on. Typical kids, anybody can. So, you know, the thing is that you have to talk about it and you need to use monitoring and filtering. It's not perfect, but it is one way to know what your kids are up to. And the other piece is that...

 

Amy

The other piece is that having a phone, having access to the internet, having an iPad, having the whatevers, it's a privilege. It's a privilege. It is not a right. The only right they have is to a computer so they can do their schoolwork. And so if you lessen the opportunity, right? Anyway, I mean, I'm never gonna get my way on that one.

 

Ann

In other words, we give kids a lot of opportunities to use computers and phones – these things with internet access, that we really don’t have to. It’s important for kids to understand – probably when they first gain access to anything like a computer or a phone that it’s a privilege – not a right and that having that privilege comes with some responsibilities. You can enter into an agreement with your teens and tweens that these devices are on loan to them and as long as they are responsible and use them they you agree for them to be used, that privilege continues. And if they don’t, well, that privilege is no longer available to them. As long as this is clear up front and you’re consistent and follow through – this is a good way to help them remember their responsibilities.

Now, something else I asked Amy to explain is how being exposed to internet porn as a kid or a tween or teen is different that the porn we would have seen as kids. Because I hear many parents taking about how seeing porn is just a natural right of passage – you know, we saw it – Playboy and Penthouse and “dirty books” – I told her I remember finding the Joy of Sex in my parent’s bedside table and sneaking it into the closet with my friends to read it and giggle about it.

 

Amy Lang (12:21.034)

The joy of sex was sort of porn, right? It wasn't porn, but yeah, anyway.

That's actually a safe thing you can give your books, kids that will like, it's instructive, it is sexy, and it's not porn. It's not porn. It's beautifully illustrated. People have pubic hair. It's a miracle. So here's the difference. What we would see with still photographs, much safer than much safer to see a still photograph. You have to use your imagination about doing sexual stuff with that person. Stuff that we saw oftentimes had a storyline of some sort, something, it wasn't nearly as, it was, it was sure it was graphic, but you couldn't get to really, really hardcore porn without trying. Now, I think that what you see pretty readily and easily is something that we would have considered hardcore porn. So that's the first thing, it's not the same.

 

Amy

It's not the same. And the other piece of it is that we look at porn with our adult brain or fully developed adult brain. And so like I look at it and I'm like, oh, don't wanna see it, right? I'm a 15 year old person. I look at it and I'm like, oh, I've never seen this before. Oh, I feel good. I'm getting a boner or a clitoral bone or a boner boner. And like, oh, this is feeling good.

 

Amy Lang (13:51.174)

Oh, wow. Okay, this feels good and sexual to me. And they might think it's a little weird, but they don't know. So they start to watch, right? And they like that good feeling that good sexual feeling. It's cultural, everybody else is watching porn. So there's nothing, you know, it doesn't feel like there's anything like abnormal or weird about it, right? Because every, you know, everybody else is doing it, not really everybody else, but lots of people are doing it. So it's a cultural norm. And, you know, amongst adolescents.

 

Amy Lang (14:21.086)

So I just think that, you know, honestly, put your 12-year-old hat on and go to Flippin Pornhub. Put your 12-year-old hat on, and then you make decisions. Right there, make some decisions. And my guess is that you'll change your mind. You'll change your mind. Kids should not have those images in their heads. They use it for sex ed. They think that's how you do sex.

 

Ann

That's what I was gonna ask you is, so what is it about seeing the porn at this age besides the possibility of them becoming addicted to it and that kind of thing, what else does it do to them that we should be worried about as parents?

 

Amy

So many things. So first of all, that. They think that is sex. So they are having their relationships. It's time for them to have sex. They will start like that. They will do that. Get her in there, essentially. So that's the first thing. There is no pubic hair anymore. So they think that pubic hair is dirty, ugly, et cetera. That's where we got that whole business about us shaving our parts from porn.

 

Ann

Oh my God, I mean, just that alone is something so new and weird to me. And it's now, it's like the norm. I mean, I remember it's been probably 10 years ago that I learned somebody's husband was looking at porn and had asked them to shave. And I'm like, what? They ask you to do what? She was like, yeah, they don't, they don't. And I'm like, are you serious? That is such a...totally odd thing and now it is like what they even call it a certain type of waxing that you get I mean we sound so old. I know I'm probably gonna have to cut this out, but

 

Amy Lang (16:08.534)

Yeah. And I know we are old, but here's the thing. That's all right. Don't cut it out because it's important because people don't think critically about that. So, so yes, people adults are shaving their vulvas. And the thing that for me is like, you know, who has a hairless vulva? A child. And so for. Yeah. And so like, so for me with healthy, like kind of back to the thing about body image. So if you're telling, so if, so, okay, I'm just gonna side note here. So if you are a person who has been shaving their pubic hair or having it waxed or removed and you have children and you're naked in front of them, grow it back. Grow it back. They need to see what's normal and healthy and typical. When they're older and I know people push back on me, it's my body. Yes, it's your body, it's your choice, but think, just give it a hot minute of a thought, right?

Just give it a hot minute of a thought. And so that was body image issues, right? So people have expectations. People with penises, they think their penis needs to be that big. They think there's violence and sexism and all kinds of crap that goes on. So that gets normalized. And then, I mean, the industry as a whole is a nightmare. Right? It's a nightmare. And so it's complicated and it's...for kids, it's not where we want them getting their information. It's not where that is not what sex is.

 

Ann

Yeah, that's so important, I think, to point out. When we're talking to our kids about that, the industry, the industry, and I know people are like, I'm empowered and I'll do what I want and I can go have sex in front of a camera if I want to. Well, that's great. But most people don't decide to do that because that's what they want to do for a career. Most people decide they're gonna do that maybe because they can't do anything else. They feel like they can't do anything else. There's always, I think, and maybe I'm being small-minded here – I feel like the industry as a whole is mostly dragging people in who have issues, who have been harmed in the past, who have, you know, maybe even body image issues. I don't know, but explaining that to kids, that's pretty significant too, isn't it?

 

Amy

Yeah, I mean, it requires a kid to have empathy, to be able to really understand the impact of the industry. So you say that to your eight-year-old, and they're going to be like, you're using a lot of words, my friend. And you say that to a 15-year-old, they're going to be able to say, oh my god, yeah, I see that. And it is complicated, because we don't want to be policing people's sexuality in their bodies and all of that. And I do believe we have a right to our own bodies. We have a right to our own kind of sexuality.

 

Ann

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Amy

But I also believe that if we want to raise people who feel good about themselves as a sexual person, who have a healthy sense of what a healthy relationship looks like, what healthy sexuality looks like, how it works, porn, that stuff from porn, it's going to be in the picture. And we have to talk about it so we can counteract it. We can talk about the context of it and give kids our values and help them. Like understand that is not a way to be. It's a way to be, but it is not a way to be, especially when you're starting out. Like if later on in life you wanna do all that, go for it as long as everyone's consenting.

 

Ann

Yeah. Right. Well, that's what worries me too, is the whole, you know, for boys getting it in their head that everyone has a flat stomach and perky boobs that don't fall over to the side when they lay on their back and that everybody wants to, you know, do this kind of sex or do that thing or, you know, it's just, and I was even talking to my son about it yesterday. I'm like, you know, you understand that's not real and that's not the way girls want it and he's like, well mom, you don't know girls today. So you know, are girls getting their ideas from this as well and thinking, that's the way I have to be. That's the way sex is.

 

Amy

Yep, they are. They all think that's the way of it. So the girls think, like, with all of the self-esteem and crap were funneled and they're funneled and all of that, now we add, you've got to have sex like a porn star. And you have to enjoy it. And you know, like, it's this whole thing of, like, they act like they're enjoying it. So the porn stars, or the porn actors, I should say, act like they're enjoying it. And so, I mean, you know, starting out, I mean, I remember starting out as, you know, having sex. It wasn't great. It wasn't great. It took a while I was learning how to do it. Right. I was learning how to do it, learning how to talk about what felt good to my body. So, I mean, I can't imagine having that in my head, having my partner expect to have those expectations. And then, you know, I don't know. I mean, there's all different ways to have sex and a lot of them feel great. Right. So it's just so flipping complicated, but circling back, circling back. The things you can do, the biggest thing, is have open conversations about sex so they know what healthy sex is. So they're ready for it. So they understand that porn sex is not real sex. So they know that good sex is a process. It's a process. It starts with handholding and caressing, and then it advances.

I mean, I think for me, really, it's like when I think about what I hope for kids for their first time is that they are in a loving, committed relationship, that they can talk about what they want, or even if they're not in a necessarily even committed relationship, that they can talk about what they want, that they're able to consent, they know what they're getting into. If pregnancy can happen, birth controls on the table, condoms are in the mix, STI testing is in the mix, having some full consciousness going into it so they feel good looking back.

 

Ann

I think what Amy’s saying here really mirrors a lot of what I discovered in the research I did for last Friday’s episode # 82 on romantic sleepovers – the way the Dutch think about their teens. It’s really the way I think we should all be thinking about our teens’ sexuality. Understanding that they are capable of falling in love at this age, wanting that for them, wanting them to understand that sex is a gradual, building of steps based on trust and consent. We need to be having open and honest conversations about sex early and often. We need to explain what it is, how it works, when it should happen, what a relationship should be like, that things should be taken slowly and gradually – explain the importance of consent, contraception, STIs and STDs – all of it. AND of course, what porn is, that it’s not real – it’s not the way it works in real life, it’s not the norm by any stretch and it’s not what they should strive for and not the way it should be.

I told Amy I feel like I sort of failed in this department (like so many others) because while I talked to my son about sex in very basic terms early on (we talked in more specifics after I knew he was having sex) but I just sort of assumed he’d pick it up the same way I did – books, friends…osmosis! I do think I would have been much more on top of it with a daughter. And I know now that none of this should left to chance – up to them to just figure it out. Parents are the ones that need to be doing the educating – our teens need to be learning all of this from US.

 

Amy

Well, they do. And I hope you can let yourself off the hook, because most folks don't know what they're doing. And it never surprises me that people say, if I had a daughter, I would have been more all over this because of the risks are higher. Straight up, the risks are higher. So I think that it's never too late to start talking to your kids unless they are 18, out of your house then your ship is sailed. But you can still give them books. They're great books about sex and healthy sexuality for older, young adults. I think you can absolutely do that with a little note that says, I messed up. Here you go. We never need to speak of this again. Please don't bring it up. I messed up here. Let me see if I can fix this. And then if you haven't started talking with your kids for people who haven't, just do it. Just say, I screwed up. I should have done this sooner. I didn't think you were ready. I wasn't ready, but I've been thinking about it and I know you're getting all this information and I'm betting a bunch of it is wrong. So I want you to be really smart about this. One thing that actually can really help with the conversation is to say it is really cool to be the smartest kid in your friend group about this stuff.

 

Ann

So, really let this sink in -  what she’s saying here. Even if your kid is 17 or 18 and still living at home, it’s not to late to have these conversations. Just as we say all the time – if you discover you’ve messed up somehow, tell them. “Look, I should have already done this – I know that now” and start having these conversations. It WILL be uncomfortable – of course, it will. But we can do uncomfortable things to protect our kids. To inform them, to influence their behavior.

Now, another big issue here of course – Parental Controls – filtering and monitoring. External controls that need to be in place in addition to our conversations and guidance.

 

 

Amy

OK, so first of all, I just got to say right now, parental controls or filtering and monitoring are required. Like if your kiddo is online on a device in any way, on every device they access the internet on, you have to have monitoring and filtering installed. So three different products, Bark, Circle, and Custodio. So for folks who are outside the United States, Custodio is the way to go. We'll put it in the show notes links to those. So this is how, let me just give you big picture of monitoring and filtering. So monitoring is watching where they're going. Like bark, which is the product I recommend. Um, it, they tell you where they're going. You get a ping. Your kid just Googled the word something that is like sexual, right? Um, like they Google sperm whale. Bing. Um, right. Cause you know, sperm. Um, um, so that's monitoring. Filtering is filtering out words. So with these products, you can filter out a swath of words that are about sex or sexuality, drugs, suicide, like all kinds of things. You can make it so kids can't search for that stuff. And again, when they do, you're going to get a notification. So here's the way to think about this. So I think about it like being in the car. So monitoring is just like a seatbelt.

So you always put your seatbelt on when you're in the car, right? Always. And then the filtering is like car seats. So when your baby's a baby baby, they're in a very, they're in a rear facing bucket. They're as safe as they can be, really narrow filtering. They get a little older that I don't know, I can't remember. They get a car seat, forward facing car seat. So we got a little, they flip around, right? They flip around so they're less, they're more open. So more filtering.

 

They get a, what's it called? Booster. They get a booster, more open. They have just a seatbelt in the back seat. They eventually end up in the front seat with a seatbelt. And then ultimately, they're driving. So that's how it works. By the time they are about eight, I don't know, 12 or so, you take the filtering off. They can go anywhere they want. You always have the monitoring on, so you can see what they're up to. So you can see what they're up to. And you know, they don't like it. And who cares? Who cares?

 

Ann

Yeah, well, and I'm curious. So at 12, you're not, you're not keeping them off things anymore. You're trusting them, but you have the monitoring so you at least know what they're doing. Okay.

 

Amy

Yeah, you can see all the apps that they download. You can see what websites they're looking at. You can see all kinds of things. And then the other thing too is having the phone is a privilege. It is not a right. So you have a phone contract. You have conversations about what happens if they mess up. And then you spot check. And you see what they're up to on their phone. Show me your text. Show me your Instagram account. But they're clever. So they have a forward-facing Insta account and a rear-facing Insta account. I mean, none of this is perfect.

 

 

Amy

But it's your job to do everything you can to protect your kids, right? Just like being in the car. You would never, ever, ever let your kid be in the car without a seat belt, right? So why on earth would you let them be on the World Wide Web without a seat belt? Because, yeah, there's so much nasty out there to see.

 

 

Ann

Well, but they're so freaking smart. That's what you know, the V like the VPN. I mean, if they knew if they know how to do that, I mean, can't that will filter us out, right? I mean, we won't see what they're doing. Right. And incognito windows and stuff like that.

 

Amy

Yep. I think you can see. Yeah. It's just a mess. Just a mess. That's why you have to talk with them. Right? That's all we got. That's all we got is educating them and hope. Education and hope education and hope.

 

Ann

Well, and that's what, you know, I did an episode about like when the, um, surgeon general's report came out about social media and all of that, you know, went through all that and we, and I talked about how the, you know, there's, there's the monitoring, but then it's the conversations that you have with them. You can't do the monitoring without the conversations are not going to do you much good at all, right? Because they can get around them. So it's.

 

Amy

Yeah, totally.

 

Ann

the conversations that matter and the sex conversations are so freaking hard. I understand that. I mean, I still, it makes my face burn to think about it. I, it's so freaking hard, but in, and you know, I don't even, I don't think my husband ever did that either. So it's just a matter of getting past our, you know, preconceived notions of what we should be embarrassed about. And then is that's your book-I mean, you tell us how to talk about it, right?

 

Amy

Yeah, yeah, my book is called Sex Talks with Tweens, What to Say and How to Say It, and it's essentially scripts. It's just scripts. I mean, there's some like how to have the sex talk stuff in there, but it's script, so you can just look up, like what is porn? How do you talk about condoms? Like I give you the words so you don't have to come up with them. I have one person who's a lovely, lovely client. She's a grandmother and she has it, and she just reads it with her grandsons, which is fine. It's fine.

 

Ann

Right.

 

Ann

Oh my God.

 

Ann

That's wonderful. That's what I mean. It's something that you can do other than not doing anything. I mean, whatever you have to do, if you have to read it from the book to their face or help make a video, if it's too uncomfortable to do in their presence, make a video and hold it in front of their face. I mean, whatever it takes. I regret it so much that I did not do it more than I did. We had little bitty talks, but they were not. They were not enough. So God, people just do it.

 

Bite off, bite whatever you have to bite and do it. For God's sakes. Geez.

 

Amy Lang (31:38.894)

That's right. You're really funny. Yeah, you know, I think the other thing too is just say, I'm uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable. I might be uncomfortable. You might be uncomfortable, but you have to have this information. And then just, I mean, the first sex talk, if you haven't been doing it, is just to say, you know, if your kid is, oh, I don't care how old your kid, well, if your kid's like nine and older, then just say - Blew it, should have been talking about this. I'm really uncomfortable, but I want you to have this information so you're ready. And then you, that's it, that's all you say. We're gonna get some books and start talking. Then you get the books, then you start talking. And.

 

Ann

I can't wait to get your book and read it to my 22 year old. That's what I'm gonna have to do. Won't he? Won't he be thrilled? It'll be a great conversation. Yeah. Listen to what I learned in this book. Oh dear God. Okay, so I also wanna ask you about this because this is something that I said, actually I said it to him the other day. I said, you know.

 

Amy Lang (32:24.75)

He'll be thrilled. They'll be so thrilled. It'll be such a bonding moment. You can just leave him voicemails. Yeah.

 

Ann (32:44.326)

Girls, when they have sex a lot for the first time, some of them will feel very shameful about it. And I can't remember what we were talking about, but I said, you know, it's a big deal to girls. It's more emotional for girls. And they, he didn't believe me. He didn't believe me. And I don't know if that is the generation and the porn and all that stuff, or if that is it. Are girls more forward and is there less shame? I don't know, Amy. Tell me.

 

Amy

They are more assertive and there is less shame, which is good. And they are doing a better job of taking care of their sexual health. And everybody has feelings. I mean, I think our boys are told that they don't and shouldn't have feelings. Everybody has feelings and everybody hides them. So if you're going to have sex with someone and you're not really well informed about consent...and you're having your interaction and your negotiations, terrible way to talk about it, with the person and you're not able to be like, okay, they don't really feel like they're that into this. Right? So like tapping into that or saying, you know what, I'm not that into this and finding a way to be comfortable enough to say that. So, you know, yeah, people hook up and have friends with benefits and hooking up is a thing.

 

And if you do it safely and everyone's consensual, great. It can be really fun to have casual sex with somebody like that. But if people are friends with benefits, everybody pretends like they don't have feelings. Because at the end of the day, some friend is wanting more than just the benefits. So there's a lot of posing and pretending because people need to be super cool and casual about sex.

 

Ann

I’ll just interject here that my comment about girls feeling shame and being more emotional is based on personal experience, which just goes to show you how our thoughts and emotions impact the way we parent our kids – how we talk to them about things (or don’t talk to them about things). I felt shame around sex because I grew up in the Bible belt, in a pretty fundamentalist couple of churches where shame was the name of the game.

And the thing about sex being more emotional for girls – again, personal experience and something that has been popularized in movies and the media – it’s been sort of a cultural assumption for our generation, I’d say. That all boys just think with their TALLYWACKERS and girls need to be persuaded and then they instantly fall in love.

I AM glad that girls are more empowered and assertive these days and are less shameful – that’s the way it should be. And accepting that boys certainly can be as emotionally invested in a sexual relationship as a girl - we have to stop making assumptions about our kids based on our own experience or the narrative we grew up with - and have to start listening to experts like Amy and doing what’s necessary to help insure that our kids are as emotionally and physically healthy regarding sex as they can be.

So, I asked Amy if she thinks pornography has impacted the way teens act and feel about not only sex but being so willing to snap and send naked pictures of themselves to each other.

Amy

They're all inundated with this. It's all part of their culture. How they respond to it is different, kid to kid, or their peer group, or whatever, whatever social pressures they're experiencing. So it's not, nobody's immune to it, right? Nobody's immune to it. And so they, with the questions about sexting and that kind of thing.

 

Amy

It's probably part of it. I mean, it's like we are visual creatures, right? So I mean, if you like to look, you want to see someone's boobs, and we're 16 or 14 or, fortunately, 12, and you say, hey, can I see your boobs? Take a picture, right? Here come the boobs. And then if it's going to a person with a penis, they may take a snap of their tallywacker and send that back. And most folks don't want to see that. So it's part of our sexual culture now. And the problem with young people doing that is it's considered child sexual abuse material. And so here they are making it, sending it, owning it, possessing it, and those are all felonies. And our laws have not caught up. They're getting better because judges and judges

 

Amy

Folks now are like, okay, you made a stupid mistake. This is what this is. So they're not going to jail. But you don't know who's gonna get ahold of that. Like Uncle Creepy could get ahold of that picture of your tallywhacker or your boobs or - Anyway, so it's normalized, right? And so this is what you do, like this is how it is, and talking about with your kids about like, look, you know, this is not safe. This is not safe.

Because one of the things that's happening right now is there's a whole lot of sextortion of adolescent boys, which what that is someone will DM, direct message them, and they'll say, hey, I'm a friend of so-and-so, and my god, you're so cute. And they say you're such a great guy. And chit chat, chit chat, flirt, flirt. I'd love it if you'd send me, here's a picture of my boobs. I'd love to see a picture of your business, your unit. And so this dumb boy, manipulated boy sends a picture and then, and maybe more than one. And then it turns out this person is actually, uh, usually a man and they usually have more than one person they're stringing along and they have access to their entire Instagram account. I don't understand how that works. Um, and they say, if you don't pay me, I will share this picture with God and everyone.

 

Amy

So the kids pay, a friend of mine, kid paid, paid again, finally told his sister, his sister was like, you have to tell mom. They ended up paying three or four times. They paid, and then he stopped, the guy stopped, but it doesn't always work out that way. So making sure your kids know about that, I mean, it's terrible, it's terrible. But I mean, the big rule of thumb is don't ever, ever send anyone a picture of your private areas because

 

Ann

If you haven’t listened to episodes 32 and 33 all about sexting, cyberbullying, sextortion, the laws, you should give them a listen – I even have a parenting guide  on sexting and I’ll put that all in the show notes for you. And, as I mentioned earlier, I just dropped a show on Friday about sleepovers – episode 82 and Amy and I talked about that briefly before recording. But Amy’s written 2 wonderful books that will help you so much as you navigate these discussions and decisions.

Amy

My first book is Birds and Bees and Your Kids, a guide to sharing your beliefs about sexuality, love, and relationships. And that book does talk about how to talk to kids about sex. But the point of it is for you to think about, what do you believe about these different things? We talked a little bit about sleepovers, right? In the Netherlands, they're all for the sleepovers and with the boyfriends and the girlfriends and whatnot. And what do you think about that? Like, what do you believe about that? Will that work for your family? Well, it won't work. You know, what's going to work for your family? So it's a lot of different things to consider. And so I feel like that book is like, let's get prepared for the conversation. And then the sex talks with tweens is literally what people always ask for. Give me the words. What are the words? I just want the words. And then the other thing I have, which you referenced as a podcast, which is called Just Say This. And it's advice column style. So people call in and leave me questions or I read from my mailbox and I answer the things. And it is, well, wouldn't you say everything? Everything.

 

Ann

Yeah, it is awesome. That is the best podcast. I mean, I was entertained the entire time. I listened like on and off literally all day. So yeah, great, great podcast. I'm gonna link to it. I'm gonna put it in the newsletter. Everybody's gonna know about it.

I asked Amy for her closing comments – what she wants you to remember – to take with you today.

 

Amy

I guess my like bit of advice would be to remember this is about their health and their safety. It's about helping them grow up to be whole, happy, healthy adults. It isn't, it's about now, but it's really about their future.

 

Amy

And I think one thing that's really helpful as a little, I like to give tiny homework, as tiny homework, is to think about what did you need? What would have been helpful to you? And what would have helped you make better decisions? What was missing for you? And then that makes it really easy to figure out, like, you can give this to your kid. You can do this for your kid. It's not that hard. And it can be really funny. I mean, we were just cracking up, right?

 

Amy

It's okay. It's okay to be funny. It's not all doom and gloom, and you're way more connecting when you are being kind of goofy about it. You are being kind of goofy about it. So, I mean, I just think, I mean this lovingly, get over yourself and open your mouth. They need you.

 

Ann

Great advice! This is about them – not about you – “get over yourself and open your mouth – they need you” – that’s a quote for the Speaking of Teens Hall of Fame.

I fully intend on having Amy back at some point when she has time. She is full of wit and wisdom as they say. And truly, she knows her stuff. I really appreciate what she does for parents. I wish her books and podcast had been around a few years ago for me…but they are all here for you and trust me, you need them.

They will help you get in there, open your mouth and talk to your kids about sex – yes, it’s probably going to be uncomfortable for both of you but it’s absolutely necessary to keep them safe and healthy now and in the future. Don’t let their friends, the internet, and popular media educate them – that’s your role.

But don’t let your own personal history and biases steer you in the wrong direction. Do your research, think about these things objectively. And as Amy said, think about what you needed as a teenager trying to navigate coming into your own sexual self. What issues were confusing, what did you need to know, what incorrect assumptions did you make back then?

And then adjust that to today – with all the additional stuff teens and tweens have to deal with now, not the least of which is having porn literally in their pocket. As Amy said, there’s no 100% foolproof way to keep them from it, so you have to prepare them for it, talk about sex, make sure they have healthy, accurate information, remember that the porn of Porn Hub is not the porn of Playboy.

And, of course, for your older teens, where that ship has likely already sailed - they’ve already seen porn, you can discuss it now – tell them you wish you had talked to them about this already – get Amy’s book and use those scripts.

And of course, just because it’s likely inevitable they will see porn at some point that doesn’t mean you can’t do everything in your power to keep them from it as well. Filtering and monitoring is key as Amy said with the car seat and seat belt analogy, you start out with filtering and monitoring and by the time they’re 12 and you’ve educated them well, you remove the filtering but keep monitoring (and I’ll add – that you want to do this with their knowledge and buy in – it’s to keep them safe).

The apps Amy mentioned (Bark, Circle, and Custodio) will be linked in the Show Notes in addition to her books and podcast and other episodes of this podcast I mentioned earlier.

That’s it for Speaking of Teens today. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoy the show, I would really appreciate it if you share it with your book club, your office mates, your fellow teachers, your golf team…

And please join us in the Speaking of Teens Facebook Group – it’s one way we can support each other in this journey - the link is right there at the very bottom of the show description in your app.

Until next time, remember, a little change goes a long way.