This episode deals with suicide and suicide prevention but contains no specific stories of suicide. It’s a crucial topic for parents but, of course, please listen with care. “988 is the US Crisis and Prevention lifeline. And all other crisis lines are in the episode description where you’re listening.

 

Regret.

We’ve all felt it at one time or another. It often comes with the knowledge that we’ve gained after the fact. Or with the ability to think clearly when we couldn’t in the moment.

When we’ve been through something awful, something tragic, we often search for the meaning in it – why did it happen? What could I have done differently? How can I prevent others from making the mistakes I made?

And the most horrifying kind of regret has to be that which comes after a death you feel you could have prevented. The death of a loved one – your child.

I can’t even begin to imagine the pain today’s guest, AnnMoss Rogers felt back in 2015, when she lost her 20-year-old son Charles to suicide – the pain she, undoubtedly, still lives with today.

But I didn’t want AnnMoss to have to retell that story – she’s told it so many times now. First in a newspaper article that went viral, in her blog, Emotionally Naked, her award-winning memoir, Diary of a Broken Mind, her TEDx Talk, The New York Times, Variety Magazine…the list goes on.

The story of her son’s addiction, the mistakes she feels she made, his ultimate death…it all informs the work she does today as a mental health and suicide education expert, professional speaker, trainer, and consultant.

Stick around, as AnnMoss Rogers shares valuable insight that could literally save the life of someone you love or someone you barely know.

This is Speaking of Teens, the podcast that helps parents who are struggling to find peace and connection with their teen. My name is Ann Coleman, I’m an attorney turned parent educator and a mom who’s been there, and I’m on a mission to help you strengthen the relationship and decrease the conflict with your kid so you can help them become the young adult they’re meant to be.

AnnMoss and I have something in common, we both regret not having known then, what we know now. Her regret carries much deeper sorrow than mine - but having been through what we both did with our sons led us to teach other parents how to avoid our mistakes.

And when it comes to the suicide of a child, the biggest mistake can be assuming they would never.

AnneMoss

Well, we all think, well, they love us too much and we love them too much. There's no way, we can't fathom that somebody would be in a place where they would take their life. We don't understand that it's a limited time episode where somebody is sort of in a lot of times in a trance-like state, not always, but in a place where they don't have full control over what their brain is telling them and they're it's kind of like a brain attack and their brain is saying you're worthless. The only way you can stop this pain is kill yourself. And what's interesting is that period can be maybe 20 minutes can be longer, it can be shorter, but 20 minutes is about average. So I'm talking to a woman who is on a bridge one night and I did not call the police. Number one, I wasn't sure which bridge. When I finally figured out the bridge, I knew she had a previous run in with the law. And if the law showed up, she'd go over. So I wasn't gonna take that chance. So instead I kept talking to her and listening and I didn't argue with how she felt. I just said, tell me more about that. Why are you thinking that? You just kept asking questions.

The way I could tell she was coming out of it was that she said, my hands are really cold. I'm cold. And she had not been cold previously. And it’s like 20 degrees out, which is cold for Virginia. It's windy. She's on a bridge. It's always colder on a bridge. And I said, Ooh, I bet it's warmer in your car. Cut that heater on. Got her in the car. She cuts on the heater.

AnneMoss

And I said, is it getting better? And she goes, Well, it's not warming up. So we're gonna have to like start driving it home for it to really start to warm. And so she starts driving. She said, well, I don't have the fancy car system. And she said, I can put it on speaker. And I was afraid to kind of let her go. But I knew she would kind of come out of it. And I said, What's the first thing you're going to do when you get home?

And I said, you know, your cat, I bet your cat's hungry. And she said, yeah, I gotta feed my cat. So oftentimes we think, oh, they'll think of another way if we remove that firearm, they'll think of something else. Not really. Actually, they're kind of committed, especially they have tunnel vision. So they don't like have plans to like change their mind.

AnneMoss

So it is sort of that misunderstanding of what that whole scenario is like. So parents think it's more like I've given up on life and I'm making a threat and I'm not going to follow through with that. But anybody that has suicidal thoughts, they don't want suicidal thoughts. They didn't plan it to like get attention or get back at someone 99% of the time.

It's really they're struggling with something and they're desperate and they're scared and they want help and when we freak out as parents you know they don't want to tell us because we're going to freak out or we're going to do something they you know we're going to throw them in the hospital you know make them take medication and they don't know what those next steps are.

So there is fear in telling you how you're going to react. So just a lot of that stuff and I get that now. And I think my son, given the fact that we did the therapy boarding school, we did the wilderness, by that time he didn't trust what we did. You know, he thought, oh, they'll send me again. Well, we couldn't, he was over 18, but they're gonna do something drastic like they did before. And I get why he would think that.

Ann

Yeah. Well, yeah, gosh, that brings up so many questions because so in the moment when someone is, you know, having these thoughts, like, for instance, my godson, we just went through this recently with him. He's 22 at the same age as my son. And we just went through this a few weeks ago. And what he was saying was, I just don't want to be here anymore.

I just want it to end. And I had no idea what to say or what to do. But what was happening at the same time was he was telling his parents this and his parents were responding by ignoring him and saying that he'd said it so many times before. And they were telling, we were reaching out to them and saying he's saying this and they were saying, well, just don't worry about it.

He says this all the time. He's done it a million times before. He has anxiety. Yeah, yeah.

AnneMoss

He's giving you, oh God, those are multiple invitations. He's saying help, help. And really here's something really, really important. Our kids don't feel heard. And if he's saying it over and over, he's not. feeling heard. They need to sit down and say, I'm listening to you now, and I apologize for not listening to you. Tell me more about how you feel. And then what do you do? You shut up. You don't say anything. I mean, of course, it's a completely silent, you would ask more questions. You allow them to talk, you allow them to feel hurt. You do not get solutions and fixes well you need to exercise more you need to get more friends we

Ann

Yeah, theirs was go get a job. Theirs was you need to work. Just go work. Get over it and just go get a job. That's what they were telling this kid.

AnneMoss

Sure, it's because we think it's just not possible. And we don't want to find out after the fact that it was indeed impossible and that there's something we could have done. It's, you know, it's just, it's not that parents are bad. It's just that we can't fathom that our kids who basically look like they have everything and this big future in front of them.

AnneMoss

I cannot see that. And I thought getting a job was going to resolve it for my son, but getting a job for him meant having enough money to get more heroin.

Ann

Well, so when parents are in the middle of this, where they see that their kids are struggling with something, because with my son, he was struggling with anxiety. He was struggling with depression. We didn't really, I mean, we knew that there were some drugs going on. There were all kinds of different things going on, but he was acting out in such a way at home. And, you know, we had all the behavior issues and that rage and that anger.

And I see parents saying this all the time in Facebook groups and online and in Reddit and all over the place where they're like, just cut them off, just send them away, just call the police, tough love, tough love. What would you tell those parents when a kid is acting out and maybe they don't realize that it's mental health issues, but the kid's just acting horribly?

AnneMoss

Oh.

Ann

What would you tell parents?

AnneMoss

Well, I can tell you tough love is malarkey. I mean, I did tough love and my son is dead because of it. Bottom line, he called us. He basically was asking for help in his own way. It wasn't real obvious, but looking back, that's what he was doing.

I thought I needed to stick to this route of tough love. We tried everything else. Surely this was going to fix that. Well, my son was a sympathetic, empathic child. And when he thought we had given up on him, he gave up on himself. I wish I would have said as much as I want you to get well. I love you even if you don't.

Ann

Right.

AnneMoss

So that anger is coming from a place of frustration. Again, going back to wanting to feel heard. A lot of people read my first book, A Diary of a Broken Mind. And in there are some lyrics that my son wrote. So a lot of families have used those lyrics to say, I've read this and I'm reading this book, so I'm trying to understand what you're going through. So first of all,

Ann

Yes.

AnneMoss

They're like, perked up, oh, mom cares enough that she's reading this book about somebody else and reading about what this young man said about what he felt. So they understand you're trying to understand how they feel. And then you say, is this passage, does it represent how you feel? So they like that. And it...

AnneMoss

usually starts a conversation. So that's, you know, one way to do it. And of course, a million others. But tough love is I've got a whole article written about that because that line is constantly shifting. Now, I don't think you need to like pay all their bills if they're not paying their bills, they need to understand the consequences of not paying their bills, their phone gets cut off, their gaming gets cut off, whatever.

AnneMoss

Um, however, withdrawal of love is never the right solution. Never ever.

Ann

Never okay. And that's how they see it is withdrawal of love. The tough love thing is saying, we're I mean, to them, it's basically saying we're finished. We're done with you. Now figure it out on your own.

So, and I don't wanna speak for you, but tell us, you know, I know a lot of parents are afraid to talk to their kids about this, like afraid to bring up the subject of suicidality, or if their kid is depressed, or if they are self-harming, or they're anxious and won't go to school. No parent really wants to bring this topic up because they're so afraid of putting that into their mind. So talk to me a little bit about that. I mean, does that make sense? Is that what we should be afraid of or not?

AnneMoss

So talking about suicide does not plant the idea in their head. It's already in there. When we talk about it, when we hear certain phrases and a red flag comes up or you get this gut feeling that someone right and you ask that question.

AnneMoss

were not planting the idea what you're doing is you're opening the door. And if they've been thinking about it, they're like, they finally got all those hints I've been leaving. They're finally asking me the one thing I've been wanting them to for years. And I mean, kids reach out to me online, I've been hinting to my parents for three years to ask me this question. And

Ann

Oh my gosh.

AnneMoss

Nobody has and that's because the parent just can't fathom that would be an issue. And I'm like, you have to tell them directly. I don't want to tell your school counselor, then you and your school counselor together, give them that message because some parents just will not buy it. Oh, he's trying to get attention all this other stuff. We have so much invested in our children, it would they're not the type - Charles was the funniest most popular kid in school had signed a contract for a rap album his life long dream I never thought never thought he would leave ever. So I mean he really had so much to live for but he was in a deep depressive episode. He was addicted to heroin, but he didn't take too much of it. He ran out of it. And he was so depressed. He was too depressed to go get more or do anything about it. And he decided to end it and stuff.

So I want to go back for a second and talk about the tough love and that is weaponizing our love and we don't want to do that.  So you've thrown them out of the house. They're like, Oh, well, they think I'm worthless. So do I. So what's the point? You basically taken the one thing away that could possibly they could hang on to and say, well, that's worth it. But whether you've kicked them out or whether they're in the house, suicide can happen either way.

I mean, it can happen in their bedroom down the hall, or it can happen, you're just increasing the risk. Now at some point, if your child's behavior has gotten so bad that it's toxic to other family members, they may have to leave the home, you know, and if you're just like, I can't do this anymore, you know, you're stealing from me, you are setting off alarms, you have just stolen from the neighbors, and I can't have that behavior in the home. And I'm sorry, but to earn your way back, you've got to earn my trust back. But we don't cut off communication and we don't cut off the love. So I remember his mother would make him food. She'd meet him for lunch, she would take his phone calls. So for years, 10 years. And then he wanted to recover. And it's like one of the most amazing advocates ever. And it was painful. And it was agonizing. But he did turn things around. And part of the reason and when did reach out to her. She was not she was a single mom. She didn't have a lot of means, but she managed to have some contacts and get him into recovery and then a friend ended up putting more towards it and he went somewhere for 18 months and that's what helped. So she held on what I'm going to tell parents is if your child is still alive, there is hope. It may not turn around, but it is not within your control. But there are things we can do that create an environment where they're more likely to choose recovery. So one of those is craft, C-R-A-F-T, like the craft project, books and support related to that is more about being more positive as a family because when we go with the sort of punitive parenting it is not working in any level on this generation. We need to be more wisdom guides instead of you know that punishment thing just is not very effective and I think we need to change how we react. So, when I was got to the end right before he died. I'd started to learn some of those communication tactics. And I remember when he told me that he thought he might be addicted. That was one of the few conversations I handled very well. And I handled it well, because I listened more and lectured less. And I didn't scream, I didn't yell. didn't make accusations. But when he told me a really wild story, I just said, well, that's interesting, Mom, do you believe me? And I said, that is some story I didn't say, No, I don't believe you. Or I do believe you. I just said, well, that is some story. In other words. And then he thought, well, maybe she doesn't believe me. And then you know what I did? I shut up, I just let the silence sit there. And once I did that, that's when he confessed because I shut up long enough to give him the opportunity to confess.

Yeah, and he heard what he was saying and he listened to it and he thought, that really doesn't sound right, does it? And he came back around.

Ann

Yeah, and I've, I've not done that exact thing with my son, but I went through the same thing where I had to learn how to listen and to shut up and to, you know, hear what he was actually saying to me, because you're right. They, they want to be heard. That's their, you know, that's the crux of the whole out, I think in many cases is, yeah, they just want someone to see them and hear them and know what they're going through. And I, yes, instead of trying to put your expectations way up here where they, they can't reach that right now, you know, baby steps.

Ann:

But you said something in something that I read where you were talking about at times at which adolescents are more at risk, like times of transition and that kind of thing. What do we need to watch for? What are those transitions?

AnneMoss

So we have two times where adolescents in particular are more vulnerable to having relapses or having mental health struggles. And that is transitions and many transitions and the other is relationship disruptions. So what are transitions? Middle school to high school, high school to college, college to real life. Those are the big ones.

But what we're really not paying a lot of attention to are spring break and coming back home. So in working with a college, a big university, and it's not the leaving for the break, but the coming back that's been the biggest issue. So in most cases, I've called and said, okay, coming back after fall break, they're going to be at higher risk right now. So everyone needs to be alert. It's because those transitions make people more anxious and they're leaving their support system and coming to like a system that they have to transition to whatever support systems there. So it just causes a lot of it. Back to school is an anxious time. Leaving for holiday break, coming back.

Moving is another one. Deployment or a parent coming back from deployment. And then relationship disruption and transition would be divorce. And then your other relationship to fight with parent fight with another loved one sister brother best friend romantic breakup. That's a big one. All these are contributing factors and not sole causes. Being bullied is a relationship disruption. Probably one of the biggest ones that not a lot of people talk about is grief. Nobody knows how to grieve. You know they're like oh well I got to be strong therefore I have to push it away and you can't heal if you can't feel and younger people don't know that because a lot of older people don't know it either you know, I'm gonna be strong, therefore I can't show any weakness will that pain and the crying and all that those are building blocks to emotional healing. And if you push it away, you stay in the ugly raw fights for a lot longer. So, what happens is when you lose somebody lose an animal or people go to a substance, and then that becomes their go to and then that becomes a habit. And then it becomes an addiction. And that's when we get into trouble really basically denying our feelings.

Ann

Yeah, yeah. So you see a lot of this from going from the mental health disorder, the depression or anxiety, then to the substances and then from there on to suicide. Is that more of the way that it goes usually or does it often happen just there something happens like a relationship, a boyfriend breakup or something? Does it often just snap like that and they take their life or is it usually more of a progression?

AnneMoss

Somebody that somebody that takes their life, there are multiple contributing factors. I mean, they have to be vulnerable. And I mean, think of the millions of kids every year that are boy, and they'll take their luck. Right? They have resilience, they have other support systems, whatever it is. But for a child to take his life and that bullying kind of be in that last straw pushes them towards suicide, they had to have vulnerability in some other way. Other things weren't going well in their life. Their parents are divorcing, so-and-so is fighting, their friends have left them, they've moved to a new place. I can count multiple things. My son died by suicide. He was going through withdrawal from heroin. He was in a major depressive episode. He suffered from depression.

Of course, he had the addiction which put him 15 times more likely to die by suicide which nobody ever told me. He had a court case and he was actually sexually abused by a policeman on the side of the road in the middle of the night. And of course it was policemen so you know they believed him. The policeman was relieved of duty two years later for similar incidents.

AnneMoss: So all the things, so the more things that pile up, the more things we see our kids going through, which is why we need to be so observant and as open with our kids and listening as much as we can so that we can know what they're going through, right? And so all these things piling on, when we start seeing those things piling on,

Ann

We need to be much more observant and then start maybe the conversation of listen, if you are thinking about it or ever do think about it, right? You can tell me, is that what we say? Just tell me and I'll get you the help.

AnneMoss

Well, I think the first thing is, I don't know the first thing about this. I am, but I want to know what your experience is like. I am freaking out. I am not handling this well. Every time you walk in the door, I want to say, how are you on a text every five seconds. I'm just not doing as well as I need to be.

So here's what I am going to do for me to help us both. Number one, this is making me irritable. So if every once in a while you just give me a random hug, you know, that will help. Number two, let's put those hotlines and crisis lines in your phone and make sure, you know, and then you can actually do a safety plan. I have one doing index card.

AnneMoss

but get help for yourself say I'm not handling this well therefore I'm going to go get help for me and I'm going to go to NAMI which is National Alliance of Mental Health and I'm going to go to their family support group so what are you doing you're saying I'm going to go get help reaching out for help is a sign of strength and I think I need it now and people get to places where they need help. You're modeling good a good coping strategy and you can even come up with a code word and say I don't want to constantly ask you are you thinking suicide but I know that's the only way to really do that but let's come up with a code phrase and you can make it serious you can make it funny but

AnneMoss

we can think of things together but the decision on what it is has to be you because we want to give them agency we want to give them their power back so this is we don't want to get into a power struggle we want to find opportunities to give them agency we want to find opportunities to give them their power back what kind of phrase would you like to use so someone will say i don't feel safe in my body today

AnneMoss

One young lady says, my toenails are blue. She wants to say something funny. Or one kid said, well, I want to tell my mother the North African nudes have gotten loose. You know, I mean, just, you know, so.

Ann

God. For some reason, it popped in my head my son would probably say something like, my underwear is dirty. I mean, I can just imagine what he would say. You know, that's great. So a code word or code phrase.

AnneMoss

Yeah, I mean, and this kid, right, a code phrase, but you must have that agreement. When I say that, I am struggling with that suicide. So you can, when the kid said he said this, he would naturally laugh. It's parent laughs like, Oh, I forgot to get serious, but it would kind of reset his brain. And if you know, it did, it did help. Now. Right.

You can do, and I do this with students all the time, where we do a safety plan on index part. We list first what makes life worth living. They have to put at least two things. It can be their gaming partners. It can be their family, their dog. On that, they need to list one thing that brings up a good memory.

Ann

Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that.

AnneMoss

Like for me it's a time in Vienna when I ate in a castle with royalty and we had like the funniest table we left all night. So it's Vienna 1998 and that memory comes right back. So that's the key to this crisis response plan and I've just called this a coping card.

Second is who do you reach out to when you're struggling?

Not just with suicide with anything. I'm nervous about this test is that Aunt Sally, it doesn't just have to be a parent or at least two trusted adults. And they do not have to be a parent, they could be a school counselor, they can be somebody at the college, they could be another relative, but two trusted adults. You want to list a couple of crisis resources, and you also want to list some coping strategies.

When you start to feel something coming on what works for you. So with males, they're never willing to do the face in a bowl of ice, although that works. They're usually much more willing to do lots of jumping jacks, taking the dog out for a walk, going for a run, or just getting on a bike and really sweating it out.

Ann

Yeah, you know, funny enough, my godson just told me yesterday that he that they taught him to try. He's in treatment right now and they taught him to put his face in ice and I've been trying to get him to do that forever and he wouldn't do it for me but he did do it. So yeah, those things work. So what does that do though? It just brings you out of that moment.

AnneMoss

He did it for somebody else. It's a change in temperature and cold will do that. So intense exercise and change in temperature are two things that will kind of reset your brain. So when I was really grieving and I was really struggling, it was really cold that year. I'd walk outside without a coat, you know, I didn't stay out there all night. I stayed out there for five minutes. I was freezing cold. But it reset, you know, it was kind of a distraction because I'm like, I can't think about it. Cold to like, right. And it was just and I didn't realize that cold reset your brain until I was on one of these podcasts many years ago. And we were talking about the grief and these counselors

AnneMoss

Being interviewed by two counselors, they're like, oh my God, change in temperature. You know that that's a DBT skill. I'm like, really?

Ann

Oh wow, that is so good to know. And because I knew that did help with like anxiety to help you get out of a panic attack and that kind of thing. Yes.

AnneMoss

the breathing helps if you take I mean I coached my kids through so many and I coached myself through one and then and I knew exactly what to do because I yeah I've coached my kids through so many I'm like oh pull over a solid road I know exactly what to do and I'm gonna do it myself to help me because your face heats all up and you know your heart rate goes and

Ann

panic attack? Yeah. Me too. Yeah. Yes. Well, so that right. Exactly. Well, so that safety plan. The thing about that then is to go ahead and talk about that when they're not in that mode when they're not upset, maybe, you know, the day after or hours after and say, okay, what can we do next time? And so you write these things down. I mean, that's really brilliant.

AnneMoss

Exactly. And you do one at the same time.

Ann

OK, so what should we teaching? What should we be teaching our kids, our teens, that they can do to help other teens? Because I did I just in my newsletter last week, I just mentioned the mental health first aid for adolescents. What can we do? Like a lot of high schools I know and middle schools still do not have any kind of program where they teach kids how to intervene or how to help other kids. How to help a friend.

AnneMoss

Yeah, so, yeah. And it is the first question that they asked me in high schools, how can I help my friend or my friend is cutting, what do I do? And I have an article that they look up online, my friend is cutting, what do I do? I would say, so if someone is thinking that suicide and they tell you, you listen, you ask questions, you don't try to fix. And tell me more about how you feel. I am listening. And that's when adults says that's what all of us should say. And then we shut up and we listen when we ask more questions. You said you think everybody hates you, we don't refute it and say no, everybody loves you. Instead, we say why do you think everybody hates you? And just listen to the answer. That must be really difficult. And we go forward with that. So we don't have to listen forever. So a lot of families are like, my daughter, this child is telling them this every day. I'm like, well, I'm afraid y'all as a team, the child has to reach out to the school counselor and you need to reach out to the parent or the school counselor. You cannot keep this a secret because it's life and death. You must tell a trusted adult and usually your first line if it's available is that school counselor. I teach courses with a licensed clinical social worker on a suicide risk assessment and safety planning and I'm going to tell you this the school counselors that are in that room they know the answer to every question I ask they are on top of it they are like better than the ER nurses better than ever. They know exactly what to do and what to say.

Ann

Wow. That's awesome. If you have a school counselor and one that, you know, is aware.

AnneMoss

Right. Right, and usually there is somebody in the school where if you don't have a school counselor, this the teacher this one teacher is the go to. So there's usually somebody. But you've got maybe it is like if you're a parent, so I went out to California and the number one question out there was, okay, I know this child is struggling. What do I do? And so just asked I looked down the crowd and So I'm going to ask you a question. If your child is thinking about suicide, would you rather know before they die by suicide or after they die by suicide? And I just shut my mouth for a second. I looked out, and they were like, oh, I know the answer. You know.

Ann

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. You know, so when we are talking to our kids about this…well, they, I mean, you know, they don't want to take our advice on a lot of stuff. But so how do we tell them, look, if you find a friend struggling, this is what you need to do. I mean, will they listen to us tell them that, you know, this is how you listen and this is what you don't. You don't invalidate their feelings and you don't tell them they've got everything to live for. You just keep listening. Well, they listen to us tell them to do that.

AnneMoss

Usually, usually, they come to you with this issue, because it's stressing them out. So usually, yeah, you know, if you have a friend who's struggling, let's talk about it, you know, and just say, I don't have all the answers. But you know, it's awful. It's just a really big thing to have just in your own lap.

AnneMoss

Usually they don't want to handle that by themselves that freaks them out. They usually tell trusted adult because they're like I don't know what to do But there are too many times where a parent has said well this girl April She's been telling my daughter for six months. I'm like, I'm sorry One of y'all has to call somebody

Ann

Oh my God. Well, that's right. So what do we do then? Let's take it the next step. What do we do when our kid says, my friend so and so has been threatening this.

AnneMoss

Okay, let's say you can't tell the school counselor if you can find out that parent and you're not going to want to do this right? No one wants to call a parent and tell them this news. So you call together with your child and you say, I, you know, introduce who you are. I do not feel real comfortable now. But I know I’d want to know this.if the situation was reversed. So I'm just going to tell you what I know and share. And you may get angry with me, but that that's okay. I'd rather you be angry than your child be dead. So this is what this is what I know. This is awkward and uncomfortable. But I feel like it's really serious. And when it comes from another adult.

Ann

Yes, yes.

You know, the other adult, well, she says that all the time. Are you really sure about that? Because when I've heard, you know, when I've heard other parents that have lost a child, they often say that's what their kid said. And, you know, I'm no expert, but anyway. And then you want them to take action, maybe sometimes if you can still tell.

AnneMoss

a teacher or school counselor or let somebody at the school know. In our case, I was working with special ed for my son. That really, that's kind of where we ended up because he had ADHD. I mean, he had all the high IQ and all that good stuff, which is what kept him out a lot of programs, you know, he's too smart. What does that do to mental health?

Ann

Yep, right there with you. Well, so the, um, when, I mean, the only thing I can think of a problem that I see when your kid tells you that a friend is, is threatening and you wanting to go to the parent is the kid saying, please don't please, you know, she told me in confidence or he told me in confidence, but you just have to explain to them, there's no confidence when it comes to someone threatening suicide, right?

AnneMoss

Well, you asked him the question, would you rather have a friend mad at you or dead? Just ask him, you know, which one would you rather have if they die by suicide? How would that feel? Would you wish that we would have told beforehand?

Ann

Yeah, good point. Yup.

AnneMoss

So have a calm conversation, ask them questions and say, what I love about you is the fact that you are so trustworthy and that you are wrestling with this. That's really fabulous, trustworthy, wonderful quality about you. And I understand because I would feel the same way. I'm just really proud of you for that. Then you ask the question so you don't dive in let me tell you know it's like you want you want to say wow you're just a really loyal friend that can be trusted and that's what they told you in the first place because you're that kind of person that they could trust but what if they also told you because they were hoping you would tell someone else and I've found

Ann

Yeah. Exactly. Which I imagine happens a lot of times.

AnneMoss

Happens a ton the first time so the first time I had to call a school about a young lady I thought she's gonna send me a scathing one but who cares you know she reached out to me online and she used her school email she used it on purpose she saw that another child I had reached out to the school

AnneMoss

comment because she commented on it later and I'm like she saw that. She knew I would do it and I did. I reached out to the counseling staff and I just got five of them because I didn't know it was school and I sent her my email and I said she found me online this is a comment she left. You got to talk to her because she's planning to do this tonight so this is an emergency.

 

Ann

I find it. Well, now, you know, and some people would say possibly that, you know, knowing that you would know, you know, sending it on that in that email, that she wasn't serious, that she wanted to get caught or she was just, you know, it was just a cry for help or what whatever that's supposed to mean. Yeah.

AnneMoss

It is a cry for help, but when they are making a cry for help, what do we do? Just ignore them? You know, if you're having a heart attack and somebody's saying, I'm having a heart attack, what do you go? Oh, it's just a cry for help. You don't ignore it. You do something. Right. I mean, what are they supposed to do?

 

Ann

you are supposed to help. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

 

Ann

Yeah, yeah, good point, good point. Right, right. So just because they're making it obvious and just because they're saying I'm going to do it doesn't mean that they're not going to do it and they're just crying wolf. It means they want help to stop from doing it, right?

 

AnneMoss

I mean, if you think about it, they're screwed both ways, right? They tell you and you're like, no. So I'm going to give you a sample of all the things and I have actually a slide that has these on there. So the parent thinks they're not really going to do this. And the child says, I don't even know how to explain what's going on in my head. You know, I don't even know how to go there. Some parents say, you just need to pray on it.

 

Ann

Yeah, yeah. Right, right.

 

AnneMoss

You're just trying to get attention. You're just a drama queen. And it's not again, because it's just so hard to fathom that your child seriously consider and do that. And I mean, my son for years talked about death and people dying young and you know, Michael Jackson died young blah blah. And I mean, I never said…So what makes you bring up that? I'm curious. We need to ask with curiosity, not accusation, not shame. I'm curious, what brought that to mind? Start asking more questions and then listen.

I think you could almost sum up all of parenting this way: be curious, not accusatory, don’t shame – LISTEN. It’s a parenting skill, the importance of which simply cannot be overstated. Being a good listener will help you know your kids, understand them, strengthen the connection with them, and ultimately insure their mental health and physical safety on a number of different levels.

Listening – truly listening insures that they’ll keep talking and that you’ll be informed…

 

 

 

What else should you take away from today’s episode?

• Remember that you have to take suicidal ideation or expression seriously. As AnneMoss pointed out, it’s so hard for us as parents to understand that our kid could actually take their own life – we just can’t fathom it, often, no matter what they’ve said or done. But they can and they do.

 

• Their brain takes them to this momentary place (caused by the fight or flight response – stress response, whatever you want to call it) it may only last minutes, but in those few minutes, they cannot think rationally - remember teens don’t have fully formed, thinking brains – they have issues with self-control and making good decisions so in these moments under this kind of stress, their brain is telling them the only way to make the pain stop is to kill themselves. It’s NOT a rational decision that your teen would be making.

 

• Adolescents don’t talk about suicide, ending their live, “unaliving themselves”, not wanting to be here anymore, unless they’re truly need help. The “attention” they’re seeking is for someone to listen to them because they are in pain. Even if you think they don’t really want to end their life, they still need help to get through whatever it is causing this pain.

 

• Understand that there’s no such thing as “tough love” – it’s some made up BS that some authoritarian parent made up to make themselves feel better about emotionally abusing their child. You can’t help an adolescent (age 10 to mid to late 20s) by cutting them off, locking them out or sending them to live with someone else. I know you’re tired, but that’s not parenting – it’s throwing up your hands. And if your kid is not behaving appropriately, you need to ask yourself why and get to the root cause of that behavior.

 

• Watch out for factors that contribute to suicidality such as transitions – middle school to high school, high school to college, even returning to school after break (any relationship disruption like divorce, break-ups, being bullied), and especially grief.

 

• Understand that there are usually multiple contributing factors for why a teen becomes suicidal or takes their life – they will be vulnerable to it in one or several different ways and then one more thing can happen that tips them over the edge – for example addiction is a vulnerability that makes it 15 times more likely for someone to die of suicide.

 

• If they’re depressed, talk to them about whether they’re thinking about suicide – it will not put the idea in their head or make them more likely to do it – admit you’re nervous about it and make a safety plan (crisis response plan – she just calls them coping cards) with them, come up with a phrase to use, make sure they have all the hotlines and crisis lines.

 

• Make sure if they don’t want to reach out to you that they have another trusted adult they can reach out to when they’re struggling with anything not just suicide. Another relative or family friend, coach or teacher.

 

• Also, make sure your teen knows what to do and say if a friend confesses, they’re thinking of suicide – teach them to listen and validate just like you But they also have to understand to tell that trusted adult or school counselor…or you (so you can tell the parent.)

I’ll have links to everything we mentioned in the show notes (the link is right there in the episode description where you’re listening)

Those links include AnnMoss’ first book, Diary of a Broken Mind: A Mother's Story as well as her most recent, Emotionally Naked: A Teacher’s Guide to Preventing Suicide and Recognizing Students at Risk

AnnMoss also has a wealth of free informational e-books she’s written – again, just tap on the show notes link in the episode description.

 

Alright, that’s it for Speaking of Teens today. I hope you know how much I appreciate you listening. And if there was ever a critical episode to share with a friend, teacher, coach, this would certainly be it. In most apps there’s a little 3 dot thingy you can tap and you’ll see the share button – share away.

And…if you’re the parent, grandparent or other carer of a teen or tween, and you’re struggling in this journey, come join us in the Speaking of Teens Facebook Group - the link is at the very bottom of the episode description in the app where you’re listening.

Until next time, remember, a little change goes a long way.