Ann: We’d like to think that any of our kids would feel comfortable talking to us about anything. That they’d never feel the need to hide some crucial part of themselves from us. That they’d never doubt our love and support of them - that they’d be certain that every member of their family would always love them, no matter what. But Heather Hester, mom of 4 adolescents, found out, that’s not always the case. Sometimes the information, the feelings they’d like to share, they’re convinced (and rightly so) that not everyone’s going to accept it.

This is Speaking of Teens, the podcast that helps parents who are struggling to find peace and connection with their teens. My name is Ann Coleman; I’m an attorney turned parent educator and a mom who has been there - and I’m on a mission to help you build a stronger relationship and decrease the conflict with your kid so you can help them grow into the young adult they’re meant to be.

Today, I’m talking to Heather Hester, founder of Chrysalis Mama and host of the podcast, Just Breath: parenting your LGBTQ+ teen. She’s speaker, a consultant, coach and a fierce ally of the LGBTQIA2+ community. Heather is all these things because 6 years ago, her oldest son, Connor, told her and her husband that he was gay and as she told me, it was tough.

Heather: So, I have four kids and my son, Connor was 16 at the time and, uh, he's the oldest and we had no idea, like no idea. And I know people, when people say that people are often like, oh my goodness, how could you not know?

Heather: A lot of people just don't. And we were one of those people that were like, wow, like completely. Um, and he told us in a very, very dramatic way, we were actually, my husband and I were traveling and, um, my parents were staying with my kids. And so my kids at the time were 16, 13, 11, and nine. And, um, so my parents were staying with him for the weekend and the first night that we were gone, my mom called and she said, you know, Heather, Connor's missing.

And, and it was about one in the clock in the morning. Our time, local time, it was about 11 where we were and I was like, Oh goodness. Okay. So, you know, sophomore in high school and, and one of those, you know, typical oldest kids, like overachiever, great grades, you know, friends, like great big brother, like all the things.

Right. And so I was like, well, this is weird. Like that's so unlike him to just to sneak out. And, um, so started calling him. Two hours, no answer, no anything. His location was, um, off, but his phone was ringing. So I knew that he hadn't turned his phone off. He was just not wanting to be found. So we finally, I left him a message saying, Hey, look, we're calling the police cause we're really, really worried.

And that's when he called me back and he was crying. And I mean, you know, as a mother, I mean, I was just, I was a thousand miles away. Like I could not get to my kid and I was terrified. And my husband was just like, you know, pacing as husbands do and, you know, trying to like, Decide what we're just so helpless and he's so he's crying and I'm like, okay, buddy, you know, what's going on?

And he's like mom gotta tell you something. I was like, what are you? Okay, and he's like, I'm gay.

It's okay that I'm gay? It's okay that you're gay and he's like, but, but grandma and grandpa, and I was like, yes, I know. And so, you know, I, the backstory is that I grew up in a very conservative, very evangelical Christian family and my parents were the ones staying there and I think, you know, over time we figured out that that's kind of what triggered him and he just like freaked out, um, because they aren't quiet about their feelings about anything.

My husband and I, you know, kind of just a brief backstory. Like we had definitely broken away from that and had really just been doing our, like, what is right for us and our family. So We felt like up to that point, we had been doing a good job of really talking about all kinds of people, right. Being inclusive, being loving, and really trying to understand, but I think there was just that like underlying, like, this is right.

This is the background. This is who these people are. And so, you know. And that moment we got him calmed down, got him to go home and said, you know, don't worry. I'll take care of grandma. You just get home and we'll, you will be home and we'll, we'll figure everything out. Right. Like this is going to be okay.

And, um, so, I mean, so many different things. So ,we got home and honestly, we had no idea where to begin. We didn't know what questions. I mean, we asked every question that I'm like, please don't ever say this to your child. Like literally like, are you sure? Um, you know, how do you know these things where, where, because it was all, we just had no idea.

Ann:  Let me stop you and ask you one thing. So, before you got back home, so you hung up the phone, your son blurts out, I'm gay, and you say, it's okay. I'm just glad you're alive. You hang up the phone and you're there with your husband a thousand miles away. What's the conversation like?

Heather: Um, honestly, I mean, honestly, I was, I was so like, I think I was. In shock because it was just this, like, I did not see it coming. It hit me like, that is like the last thing I expected for him to say to me. And, and I just immediately was. Like my feeling was, I'm so sad that I didn't know this. Like I cried for the rest of the trip.

I mean, it was this, it was a two day couples retreat spa, like the whole nine yards. This place, like it was Miraval in Arizona. And I had been dreaming of going to this place for years. And I spent my two days there crying in fetal position. And my husband was just like, I just don't understand this. He has terrible fashion. That was his response. He has terrible fashion. I was like, okay, well, you know. That one will go down in the books. Perhaps don't say that to him when we talk to him, you know, you're not the type you're just not, I just, I just, but you like sports. I mean, like literally like all the things, right. But these were like all the things that we could say to each other, which were like, I don't know what to do.

What, what do we do? How do we support this kid? And then it was like the deeper layers of like my family. Right. And. His family, we were not as worried about, like, we just knew that they would be okay. Um, but we live in an area where nobody that we knew was out like we, neither, neither one of us had friends that had kids who were out.

We didn't have, neither of us had any family members who were out. We just had no idea how to navigate it. So, we were just like, who do we talk to? Like, we need some help here. And we have no idea who to talk to. We have no idea where to find information. We have no idea what is accurate information. And, um, so it was just like this. I mean, I would say for not just those two days, but several weeks of just kind of being in shock. I mean, I was just kind of like, okay. And, and very much internalizing it because I knew as soon as we got home and I had to be like completely on for him and supportive and like holding space for him and my other kids didn't know and couldn't know. So keeping everything just, you know, Connor's, okay, Connor's just struggling with some things. Connor's just in a tough spot, you know, those types of things. And, you know, 13, 11, and 9.

Ann: Wait, let me ask you this. Um, why was it that they couldn't know?

Heather: I think that, you know, now I would say something very, very different. Right? But at the time, I felt like they couldn't know, and my husband felt the same way. Um, and I think that was partially because we didn't know who he wanted to, like who he had told, right? He wanted to know this information, um, where he was, and he was very protective of the information for quite a long time.

Um, several of his closest friends did know, um, and it was, and this is something too, that I really talk about with, um, you know, not only on the podcast, but with clients is let your child guide who you tell and when, and, and you'll really be able to figure out, that was one of the few things we actually did well from the beginning.

I mean, we messed up a lot of things. Right. I mean, so many mistakes, goodness, but that was one thing where we always have these conversations of like, okay, you want to tell this person, do you want us to be there? Do you want support? Do you want, you know, how, how do you want to work this? So, um, and just as a total aside, he did not end up telling my parents for about a year and a half. So it was a quite some, a while down the road before my side of the family knew anything.

Ann: Was that fear on his part of how they would react?

Heather: Um, it was, yes, I think it was partially fear. Um, I think that it was also, um, you know, we talked about it a lot and, and I'll go into this in a minute a little bit, but you know, in that first 18 months is a lot of things happened.

And so we were really in this space of like, we had circled the wagons and we're just completely focused on our family and getting him the support. And the resources that he needed and so, um, giving information to outside people was not important. Right? Um, and that was just something that I, I knew that it would be an issue with them, and I honestly didn't want to deal with it. I did not want to go there yet. Yeah, I wasn't ready to go. I wasn't ready to go there yet. And he certainly wasn't ready to go there. And I was not going to ever force him to go to that place, um, until he was ready. So that is how we decided as a family to handle it.

I would never tell anybody, you know, how they should handle. I would just, you know, share our experience and share, you know, pros and cons of things, but you know, everybody's story and everybody's situations are so unique to them. So, um, there are a lot of, it's complicated, right? There's a lot of different pieces to consider.

Um, but the bottom line and the most important piece to consider is your child. And, um, so, You know, I think this is a lot of where you and I align, um, is with the, the mental health piece of this. And I think that was kind of the second thing that really took us by surprise. And I think all three of us, because I know in Connor's mind, he felt like when he told us I'm out, I'm done.

Like that was it. I'm good now. Right. I'm good now. Yeah. And, and then realized, no, in fact, I'm not. And we didn't know enough at the time to understand what was going on with him. Um, but he, within six, six months went from overachieving happy kid to just spiraled began. Substance, you know, using substances, abusing substances, um, very, very dangerous behaviors, dangerous liaisons, um, and things that we literally, like, we could not learn fast enough and we were not figuring things out fast enough to keep up and, and I would, and in there he had a major jaw surgery and like, there were just So many pieces that it was, I mean, I just felt like I was spinning and in this like just state of crisis, constant, constant crisis and constant.

Like, I was just like, I was wound so tight and, um, and just hyper, like my end, like I realized now, like it was my intuition that was like, hello, pay attention. There are so many things going on. Right. And when you, when that's happening and you're afraid of what that information is. Like it is just, uh, it creates a whole mess of everything. Mind and body mess. Total mind and body mess. I mean, I was like just a rail and, and you know, all the things, right.

Ann: So um, let, let me ask you real quick now. So, none of this started then prior to him telling you? He was mentally and, and everything was, he was fine. He seemed fine to you. And then this just all of a sudden happened after he came out.

It accelerated. Yes, it did. I will say, though, looking back, he had anxiety that started like 6^th or 7^th grade and, um, he was really into sports and it seemed to come out around sports. So we  thought. It was sports related anxiety, right? Not that it was what it actually was, because what we did learn pretty early on was that he had known since seventh grade, he had known for three years.

Like he had started figuring it out, putting all the pieces together. And now, you know, there's, um. Um, what am I trying to say? It's, it's called the CAS identity model and it's basically the six stages of coming out and it was created by this psychologist who was the first one to say that, uh, being gay or being LGBTQ is not a mental health problem, right? It's not a mental illness. And so she created this, she did all of this research and, um, created these six stages. So now understanding these stages, I look back and I realize that, you know, those three years, like that was stage one and two, right? He was really just like, and didn't was scared to say it out loud.

Because then that's owning it. Accepting it and, um, but the moment he did that, then that set all these other things into motion. So, I mean, it was just. It was so much in this poor kid, like the whole time, I'm just like, you know, your heart breaks as you well know, and because you feel so helpless to be able, you, you cannot do anything, right?

You want to provide support. You want to fix them. You want to fix how they're feeling and you want them to feel better and you want them to love who they are. And the opposite was happening. And I mean, he really, you know, we, He had a therapist and we thought, Oh, great. We have this therapist in place.

Well, then, you know, this kid is super bright. Well, he figured out how to just talk right around that therapist. Right. So, but it took us a month and a half to realize that that was happening. And so it was like all these things where you're like, Oh my goodness. Really? Why didn't we know? Why couldn't we tell that? Why couldn't we tell that? Right? Like, and why didn't the therapist come to us? And you know what I mean? Like when you put your, you really put faith and trust in professionals, which many times you are absolutely right to do so, but there are times that often, often when you cannot. I'm trying to be really nice. No, I'm better often. Yes. Often. Yes. I mean, it was. When I say like that, that 18 months was grueling. It was grueling because all I did was like advocate and fight with for this kid and with other people because, you know, so quickly where they want to be like, well, you know, he's smoking pot. That's the problem.

Like that is not the problem. I don't have a degree and I know that's not the problem. Those are symptoms. Correct. Those are maladaptive coping techniques or mechanisms or whatever you want to call them. So, um, but it was definitely, it was a haul. So, we reached with, it took, we reached a point where was so dangerous. He was being stalked. We had somebody sitting in front of our house, he was sneaking out of his windows. Like I caught him multiple times. His siblings caught him up, like things that were going on that we were like, okay, this is out of control. And, um. And it got to the point where he, um, he made an attempt on his life and, and we were like, okay, we, this is, you need to, we need some serious help.

You need some serious help and we need to get you out of here because you are not only not mentally safe, but you are physically unsafe. So, we found a place in California. We live in Chicago, California. That was a great, you know, heard great things about this program. He was there for two months and it was a godsend. We were there. Every weekend for parent stuff.

And we were like, um, we. Need to move him. Like he is not ready to come home. Then he needs to be moved someplace that is, that is safe where he can continue his education. Right. Because that's one of the great things about Newport is that that was partial, you know, they had a whole tutoring thing. So we literally went out there, like, again, like.

Within a week, we're like, we're going to go out and pick him up and all this was like completely against their like recommendation, but we're like, we want to spend a week with him as a family. We want to be together and because the kids, we kept telling the kids, like Connor's coming home. Oh, wait, he's not coming home.

Connor's coming. You know, so they were all just like, what is going on? And, um, so we all went out there. At Christmas for a week, spent a week with him in California. And then at the end of that week, my husband and my son got on the plane and they flew to North Carolina to a therapeutic, um, boarding school.

And I flew back home with the other three and that was like. One of, I mean, all of these things, I don't know which is more heartbreaking than the next. Right. Um, knowing, I think what got me through it all was knowing that he was at least safe. Yes. And that he was learning, even if it seemed like he was resistant.

Um, I will say now - I mean, his reflection on that whole time is, is quite extraordinary because the things that he did learn and that he did take in, he would never have said anything to us about, right? Because why would he? He's 17 years old and he's mad. I mean, I've taken, we've taken him away from his friends. We've taken him away from all of the things, right?

Ann: The cell phone. That was the big thing. No cell phone.

Heather: No cell phone. Yeah. No cell phone. Yeah. And, um, and that like as a quick, quick aside, but I think it is an important lesson for or a heads up for anybody who has a child who has come out, who is, uh, curious, who is a teenager, pay close attention to their cell phone, pay close attention to their devices. And it is important that. You, it is so uncomfortable. I know it's uncomfortable and I can talk more about this at a later at a later time in a later episode or however, but to have those conversations, because if they are not getting information from you, if you are not sharing information with them, if you are not pointing them to places that are safe to find out. What they are curious to learn, um, they will find it on their own and they will find it in places that are very, very unsafe.

Ann: And I think you could say that about whether they're gay or straight that the same thing, you know.

Heather: 100% 100% like, just have the conversations and it should be plural conversations. It doesn't have to be a singular conversation about sex because no one have a singular conversation about it. Just have little conversations, like don't make it a big deal. Don't make it uncomfortable. It's going to be weird anyway. The first time we bring it up, just suck it up and do it. Um, because that is one of the things that I'm like, Oh, had I known better? Um, and that is how I found out a lot. I did end up taking his phone and I went through his entire phone and literally like lay on my bathroom floor and cried because I could not believe what I was finding on his phone and, um, and just so sad.

I mean, yes, of course. Like some people are like, well, wasn't that horrified? I'm like, well, yeah. And, but my, like, my. Under, like the, underneath all that was just sadness. Like I was just so sad and, um, what, what were you sad? It was hurting.

Ann: Yeah. Is that what you were? You were sad because of him hurting

Heather: because of him hurting and I could see what he was trying. Like I could just see the self-loathing. I could see the, like the, like the somebody like love me, right? Like somebody needs to love me like this. And it did not matter that we loved him. It needed to be outside. He was trying to find that because he didn't love himself because he found himself to be, you know, at that time, very unlovable and he did not like anything.

He was very angry that he was gay. And, um and so there were all these little pieces that I was like, Oh, this is so horribly sad. Sorry. I still cry when I talk about, I know, I listen, if he wants to know, like,

Ann: I've got goosebumps all over. I know. I mean the part, I mean, him not. Loving himself and trying to find that love outside of the family. Is that something that you've seen with most kids that come out as gay or is that something more related to maybe how he felt the grandparents felt about him?

Heather: I think that, um, it's both, it's both. I think there was definitely this, an underlying fear that we may have agreed with the grandparents in some way. And we just weren't saying it that we were, that we were clearly had, you know, had shifted and we're shifting more and more over time. And I will tell you where we are now, as compared to 6 years ago is like a 180. I mean, the shifting that we had done from, you know, the time that my husband and I got married at that point where it was decent and definitely felt like we were in our own lane and, but now I look back and I think the conversations that I wish I had been confident enough and comfortable enough to have. That I did not. And then just like the information that I wish I would have known, like I just didn't know.

Ann: I'm so sorry. And I know looking back, we can all say that. I mean, that's exactly how I feel about my son going through what he went through. Yeah. Which was, it's not, it's not the same, but it's still the things that I learned afterwards and look back and I go, Oh my God, I did so many wrong things and reacted inappropriately at so many junctures that I wish I had known better, but it sounds like that's not where you were. You were acting appropriately, and you were doing all the things. You just didn't have a deep enough understanding of how he felt. Is that right?

Heather: 100%. 100%. And I, I felt like, like now, you know, again, as I look back, I was like, just, I was always like 10 steps behind, you know, like I was scrambling and we both were like scrambling to keep up and, and scrambling to try to like, learn as much as we could as fast as we could.

And we just could not keep up and, and, you know, and then there's always that. The other, my other three kids, right? Like trying to keep their lives as normal as possible and, and, and be there for them in the ways that they needed me at that time. And, um, and they needed both of us and explaining things. In an age-appropriate way.

Right. Yeah. And, um, I mean, I will tell you like one of my favorite, favorite memories of that time is, um, so the Connor had told his, so his next sibling is Isabel and, um, they're about three years apart, but they're really close. And I mean, she was 13. I mean, I still think this poor kid. He told her within like the first two months of coming out. So she knew pretty, pretty quickly, but the younger two that we call the littles, which I get it. Um, the littles didn't know for another year, but you know, Isabelle was right there in the thick of all of this. And we, we did come to, you know, she finally came to us, um, and that fall and was like, look, like, this is all the stuff that Connor has told me, like, if he had Oh, well, these things and I mean, oh, it put her in such a horrible position. Such a horrible position. This kid, I mean, the amount of just information that was weighing on her, that she did not know how to process, that she was so worried for her brother and she wanted to like honor that, but she was also so scared for him and just, you know, finally had. So, you know, we are, we are the family now of therapy.

I am a huge believer in therapy for therapy for everyone. It's very good. Um, you know, everyone needs an objective person to talk to. That's what I always say at the very least. It's an objective human to talk to so, but that was, you know, something that we definitely, you know, had to get into place for her immediately and really, really give her a ton of support and love through.

Um, but then that next spring when he was, uh, in North Carolina, we had gone out there, uh, we went down there for spring break and. We were all together in this little tea house and Connor decided he wanted to tell the younger two. And so he's, you know, explaining it and it's like, is the most adorable, you know, just wanted to let you guys know that, um, you know, I, I don't like girls. I like boys and, um, and I've been here because I've needed to work on, on my mental health. And he was like, really like, you know, just very simply like explaining this and, and you know, my youngest Rowan was 10 at the time, and he's like, I'm just watching him, like, kind of take it all in. And he finally looks at him and he says, I think you might be the bravest person I know.

Ann: Oh, God, I just got goosebumps all over.

Heather: Okay. My job is done.

Ann: Oh my mama. You did good. Wow. And he felt so good about that too.

Heather: Well, I mean, just the look on Connor's face was like such relief. And of course, I mean, all three of them have always just adored him, but he and Isabel have a very different relationship than he does with the littles and then with Rowen.

Yeah, the little exactly. And they do. And, you know, the age difference is so great for so long. And now we're getting to the point where it's getting less and less, but it was just one of those very sweet moments. And, um, You know, it's been in the past year, actually, that Connor has started sharing parts of his story with Rowan, who is now 15 and Rowan's like, boy, had I known way back then, I mean, oh my goodness, it is. He is hysterical.

Ann: And is there a relationship? I mean, I'm just, I'm sitting here wondering. For kids who have not had something like this happen in their family where someone has come out as gay, a 15-year-old boy who has an older brother who is gay, how has it impacted him and how he, um, how he deals with, with his peers and what he says? I mean, have you seen anything that would be different from other kids?

Heather: Um, you know, he's Rowan has always been just super accepting of everyone and just really inclusive. And he's just that kid. And I think some of it is he's the youngest, right? And he's, so he just kind of has always gone with the flow, but he's that kid. Like everybody loves, he's real easygoing. He's very athletic. He's, you know, super like dry sense of humor and, um, And so he does, like, we have in our family, there is a lot of. witty, sarcastic, dark humor. Um, I mean things that are, when the six of us are together, the things that are said, I'm always like, I hope nobody hears this. I'm fairly certain no other family talks like this or says these things. And Rowan will be like, you know, being gay is stupid. And I mean, that's what he'll say to him. And you know, comes back with, right. So, they have like a really funny, funny, so they can rib each other about it. And it's just not a big deal anymore.

A hundred percent. Like that's great. Rowan, um, started, he has a little, you know, a little girlfriend, which is so stinking cute. I can hardly stand it. And, and he's, Connor was home a few, few weeks ago. And, um, he was like, I have a girlfriend and Connor's like, so you're 15. And he's like, mom. I just want to say you're welcome.

Totally. Yeah. I mean, it was so funny. Connor was laughing so hard. Oh God. Cause it was like the delivery was so good. And, um, doesn't it feel good that you are, I mean, I mean, and that's why I share these pieces too, because I feel like there's, I mean, it was. So difficult for so long, um, even into his, you know, 1st, couple of years of college was, was really scary and really frightening.

Things were going on. Um, and it took, it took a lot of time. Um, and then he just. About his, I would say, like, the end of his sophomore year kind of hit his stride. And I started seeing like that shift to like, I'm all right. Like, I like who I am accepting himself. I like who I am. Yes. And like really starting to see that, like self, like self-acceptance.

And it was like, first, like, okay, you're okay to like, I kind of like who I am to like, I am amazing. That is so awesome. And I have, right. And it's just the cutest. I mean, cute is not even the word I want to use. Like it is, it's powerful. It's powerful to see your kids step into their own. And feel okay about themselves actually feel great about themselves.

Ann: I mean, it's huge. Yes. And do you think he found that because of like a community in college and you know, finding his people was, I mean, you know, his tribe, was that part of it?

Heather: Well, I, yes, I definitely think that was part of it. So he went to, um, he just graduated in May from NYU. Oh, wow. And, um, so being in New York city was a huge, huge thing. That was, you know, most, I think I'd probably be nervous to send my other kids to New York city. Connor, I was like, You need to be here. Like, this is a good place for you. Um, and it was a really extraordinary experience for him. He did date somebody for three years while he was in college. And this person was, um, quite a bit older than him. And I initially was like, I don't know how I feel about this. And then I will tell you like this person was significant and helping him grow. Oh, that's good. And, um, and they are still friends, like they did break up, but they are still friends and he is friends with our family and we all, you know, still talk.

And, and, um, I mean, I give him a ton of the credit for really supporting Connor through a lot of this growth because. He was there, right? Yeah. I was here and um, you know, and I of course go to New York a lot and Connor and I talk a lot, but I'm still his mom. Yes, absolutely. Which is different than somebody that you, that you date.

Right. Um, and he is also had the same therapist since he, soon after he got to NYU. Who I did chase down and begged to see my son and so, Please don't anybody ever feel silly or guilty about doing that. Exactly. You have to step out on a line every once in a while and do what you got to do.

Ann: Been there.That's right.

Heather: Right. Where you're just like, no, this needs to happen. And you are going to see my son. Everyone here probably thinks I'm crazy and yeah, I literally was like, look, you are the perfect human being for my son and I know that your schedule is full and you're not taking new patients. I need for you to take one more.

Yeah. You just need to scoot over just a little bit and just bring him on in an hour a week, right? And he still sees him to this day.

Ann: That's wonderful. That is so wonderful. Well, you know, and I know we just have a couple of minutes left and no, seriously, we, we've got. To like, do this again, like really, really soon, because I don't even feel like we've scratched the surface of what we need to talk about.

Ann: I know, I know. I mean, I want, I want parents to understand, you know, what, what if this happens to me? What do we do? You know, first, second, third and fourth. And, you know, I think it's so important to get your story out and to see that, you know, people are not alone and that you do go through all these things and it can be horrific and it can be hell.

Ann: But in the end, if you go along with your child and you want the best for them, it ends up working out, but you have to be the mama bear that you've been and do what you've done. To step in and make sure that he's alright

Heather: and everybody has that in them. Some people think that they don't, you absolutely do 100%. It's just dormant.

Ann: When push comes to shove, you, you're going to find out exactly how that comes out in you and you're going to jump in and do what you have to do.

Heather: That is absolutely right. So I would just say, you know, if you, um, are in this situation or find yourself where your child is, has come out to you, or you feel like your child might come out to you, um, or if your child's friend has come out and they are.

You know, in a situation where maybe their parents are not affirming or accepting, um, or they're running into some difficulties at school or with friends, um, the. Most, most important thing that you can do is just to love, make sure they know they are loved for they, for who they are right now, that you see them, that you hear them.

And that they really feel that support. So it will take a little bit of like, you know, it's more than just, I love you. It's, you know, in the actions it's in the, it's in the being there and the sitting and the listening, and there are things that will be uncomfortable. And there will be things that you perhaps are like, Ooh, I don't know what I think about this.

That's where you keep that, you know, that stays in that stuff that you deal with, either you talk with your spouse, your partner, your therapist, friend, those things go out. They don't go to your child or to your child's friend or to, you know, um, but that is the. Most important thing you can do and, and just really ask, you ask questions, try to understand because the more that they feel like you want to understand them, the more they'll tell you.

Yeah. Yeah, so those, like, really open ended questions and, um, you know, and coming from a place of, of genuine curiosity, right? Because kids are like. The greatest BS detectors ever, so they know if you're asking from a place of judgment. Yeah, you're asking right place of curiosity, right? God, they're so good.  Like they can, they just get right in there and they know.

Ann: Yep. Um, and remember that they're still your child, no matter what they haven't like turned into something that they're not, they're still your child, the exact way they were yesterday.

Heather: Right. Absolutely.

Ann: Absolutely.

Heather: And if they are telling you this, this isn't some idea that they came up with overnight. This is something that they have been thinking about and it has been weighing on their heart and their mind for a long time. So, this isn't a, I saw it on Tik TOK, right? This isn't a, I, you know, my friend is. This is very, no person chooses this. Anybody who knows a child who's come out knows. That this is not a choice because it would be easier not to, you know, that's what I think people don't, don't get, um,

Ann: okay, listen, Heather, I know you've got to go, but I, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you sharing the story and we're going to have to sit down with the calendars, like in two seconds and figure out the next time we're going to get together because I just want to continue this conversation.

Heather: Okay. Absolutely. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I know I kind of went on a little bit there. Um, but I am so grateful to be here and I just, I hope that this even helps one person know that they're not alone and there are people out here who are cheering for you and supporting you and all of those good things.

Ann: Thank you.

You can learn more about Heather’s speaking, corporate consulting and coaching at chrysalismama.com and check out her podcast Just Breath: Parenting your LGBTQ+ Teen and the Just Breathe community – The links for everything in the show notes

That’s it for Speaking of Teens today. I appreciate you so much for being here. If you’re new here, please follow the show so you won’t miss our twice weekly episodes every Tuesday and Friday.

Our producer and editor is Steve Coleman; researched, written, and hosted by me, Ann Coleman.

Until next time, stay in the moment and remember, you’re not alone.