Ann

I can honestly say that I know how hard it is to be in the seeking phase of parenting. I was in major seeking mode for around 2 years. All of my Google searches had something to do what how to get my son to stop doing what he was doing, get rid of his anxiety, or be kinder to us. Sound familiar?

My name is Ann Coleman, and this is a special episode of Speaking of Teens. Stay with me.

You’ve probably heard at least bits and pieces of my story.

And let me tell you, a few years ago if someone had promised me everything would change if I’d just stand on my head for 3 days singing French cabaret songs, I would have done it.

Thank god I didn’t have to learn French to turn things around with my son, but I can certainly tell you that the concepts were so foreign to me that I might as well have.

And for the past 5 years I’ve dedicated myself to becoming an expert in the science of Parenting Teens. I’ve quit practicing law just so I can help you avoid the mistakes I made several years ago.

I know you’re seeking too.

So, today I want you to hear from a mom who found what she was looking for, in Parent Camp, and can tell you the changes she’s seen in her family.

Ann

Okay, so, all right. So before you started listening to the podcast and coming to parent camp, you didn't really have any understanding of where things were going wrong between you, right? So can you pinpoint any areas now, like looking back, where you needed to switch gears or how you change things and if you, when you change things, how that might've changed things between you and your

 

Anna

Yeah, yeah, I think the first thing was kind of understanding that if they could do better, they would do better. You know, that's why you keep repeating. For me, it was like, what's the problem? You know, you've got everything where you want, where you want, you know, you've got, you don't miss anything. And why wouldn't you just do your homework? Why wouldn't you just do this and this and this? Like, it's so simple in my eyes. And then it was like, well, if they could, they would.

And so I kind of always kind of repeat to myself like if they could, would. If she could do it, she would do it. there is something, kind of understanding about the brain that it's not yet developed. So having the patience, you know, I'm, I was kind of very kind of hot person and direct person, you know, I'm originally from Poland. So I kind of have got this mentality, like whatever is in my head, I will say straight away. And it's just kind of calming myself down. So being the calm person and, if she didn't have a right mood or she had an attitude, I wouldn't react with attitude before it would be like snapping on each other and I feel like I was very immature.

You now when I look back, it was like, what the point, you know, like, like you should be the adult. So kind of first thing was understanding that I have to calm myself down. I have to kind of be patient and, know, really empathetic as well. kind of, you know, understanding that, okay, you know, Your kids can be mean to you, they can say things what they don't want to say really, but they will do and they will misbehave, but that doesn't mean that I have to behave in a similar way to them. So kind of understanding that the brain is not there yet, was kind of eye -opening as well. You the people say, cannot prosecute the minor and all that stuff, and you kind of know that from the news, but you don't think about it with your own kids.

 

Ann

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I was watching something about that the other night. just the other night. It's funny you said that. But so when you first realized all this stuff, like about trying to be more calm and trying to empathize and understanding that they're not doing it on purpose, was it easy for you to like switch gears and just suddenly say, okay, now I understand this, so I'm calm. I know you said you're from Poland, so you're more direct. Let me tell you, I don't think that has anything to do with it because I'm the exact same way and I'm from good old Alabama. So yeah, how hard was it for you to make that switch in yourself.

 

Anna

I think I was in such a difficult situation that I was willing to do anything but I just had to think and take a step back and also take care of myself. There were days where I would be really kind of angry and things would go badly. My daughter would be nasty to me or say things that would really annoy me and we couldn't get along.

So I would just take a long walk. So I would go out with my dog. I would go on a bike, kind of just finding the time for myself to kind of calm myself down and, you know, not react in a moment. It wasn't easy, of course, you know, but I think as a parent, when you see that the things don't go well, you know, you're willing to try anything. So, yeah, of course, it's still happening. You know, I still can kind of say wrong things or do the wrong things, but it's a kind of continuous work.

 

Ann

Right, right. When you first started doing that, like taking a step back and repeating this in your head, know, she's not doing it on purpose or whatever it was you said, how long would you say it took before your daughter realized that you were making a change?

 

Anna

straight away, you know? It was like because I straight away kind of became like this like, you know, what you were saying, like, ask about the feelings, ask about what's going on, don't make the judgements, don't make the comments straight away. So I would be like saying, okay, I see that, you know, you're feeling upset, you know, I will give you some space. And because it wasn't the way I thought they were like, it's your podcast, isn't it? It's the book, it's this and this and that, know, straight away, you know, so it was, it wasn't that she hasn't noticed the change, she thought that the change was fake.

And I think that's a kind of normal thing, you know, when the parents change like that, you know, they know straight away and they were like, you know, so it was the first few months it was like, like, no, you're just faking it, you know, so now I think, you know, it's been now seven months and sometimes my kids say, like, especially my son, so I've got a son like...mom, you've changed so emotional you are you only talk about the feelings, know, I prefer when you shout versus like You know, so Yeah, yeah, yeah, just get out, you know, so he's more of a kind of he likes the discipline and he likes the darkness so so sometimes they still say like, know again the feelings, know, and so So I think that they you know, it's and I did feel a fake to me to start with, know, so it's kind of you know. But now after like five months it's just kind of... I feel like I'm just a nicer person.

 

Ann

Yeah, well, and I remember feeling that too. It's like, this is not me. These words that are coming out of my mouth don't feel right. that because you're so used to reacting and they do know it. And, you know, I tell some people, you know, it takes them a while to I think it took my son a little while to even realize that I wasn't doing the same thing because he was so used to reacting back at me when I reacted. He just kept kind of doing that a little while, like a few weeks maybe, and then he started realizing I wasn't the same and then things started changing. So even though they took notice, and they were like, okay, this is not mom, is mom's acting weird here. Yeah, even though that happened, then how long was it before you started noticing a change in your relationship and maybe in their behavior or her behavior specifically because she's the one that's an adolescent, how long was it before things started changing between

 

Anna

I don't know, I think it took time, I feel like it wasn't like a sudden thing, was kind of just kind of building on it like it wasn't that one week, yeah it wasn't like two months and I'm gonna just this happened like I'm not looking back I kind of see it's being very gradual so like it's hard for me to say when they kind of when it changed you kind of it was improving little by little like every day and there were like a bad days where you were feeling gosh, you know, it's not working. So he was like, I don't know. It's like putting on weight when you are over 40. You don't notice it by happening. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Ann

Yeah, it just creeps up and then suddenly there it is. So, so, but you, you can say that it's made a difference in.

 

Anna

 

Oh yeah, for sure it made a difference, you know, and also it's not like, it's not just my behavior but kind of understanding how it works. So for example, when you were talking about like, you know, they only want to talk late at night and my daughter was really late person, you know, to go to bed and I am very early person. So, you know, I go up, I get up usually at 5am. So I go to bed around 9 .30. And that's, and my daughter doesn't go to bed till like before.

I could find her like even at one o 'clock in the morning awake, you know, like I would go to the bathroom and I could see the light and I'll be like, and I will get really upset like it's one o 'clock, you know, what are doing? You should be sleeping, you know. So then it was like, okay, you know, if I want to talk to her, I have to wait till that 10 o 'clock, 11, where she kind of feels relaxed and when she will talk to me. So it was those kinds of little things like not just being a better person, but also making space to work with her in a way works for her. you know, like those staying up late and finding time to kind of just chat or like, you know, going to her room and just kind of asking, okay, what were you playing or were you working or getting into the music, what she likes, you know, she's got really amazing taste of music, music that I never actually knew about. And some of it, you know, it's like, like I don't want to listen to it, but there's some of it which I'm really...really enjoying and kind of getting to her interests, learning about those bands, learning about the things what she likes. It's kind of, you know, like, like if you want to make a friend, what would you do? And, you know, that's kind of how I kind of feel like with her now. It's like, it's not any longer that I can kind of tell her what to do. She's got her own mind and her own kind of, you know, agenda. So it's like, how can I kind of become someone who she trusts to and someone who she will want to talk to?

 

Ann

Exactly. Do you think that that's happened? Is she opening up more talking?

 

Anna

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think, you know, we, you know, we do chat a lot, you know, and, and we do talk about the things about her bands, you know, we went together on some concerts, you know, we had a road trip to Nashville as well, which was kind of fun. kind of finding those points to talk and, you know, not being judgmental, not kind of giving the advice straight away, just being there to listen and to kind of, you know, acknowledge that you are there for

 

Ann

 

Right. So that shift in the way you think about things you feel has made the big difference.

 

Anna

 

Yeah, yeah, I think it's kind of, you know, like, you cannot treat them as kids anymore. You have to treat them more as an adult and kind of give them the respect what they deserve.

 

 

 

Ann

Yeah, well, and I know things are still not perfect. mean, because nothing's going to be perfect with an adolescent. But as far as you're concerned right now, I mean, you feel like you've come a long way with her and that things are looking up right now?

 

 

 

Anna

 

Yeah, yeah, think, you know, think we did come a long way, but I think there is still a long way in front of us. So, you know, I'm still worried about a lot of things, you know, and, you know, and it's not kind of something what, okay, I did your lessons and I heard your podcast and I'm kind of, you know, job done, you know, and now every week to be honest, when I listen to your podcast, kind hear the recurring themes, what I heard before, by bringing the message back to me. if every week I will hear that, I will not forget and I will remember about those things which they are just different than adults and we just have to remember that.

 

Ann

 

Exactly and she's still young, right? So how old is she? Okay, that's right. turned 13. So yeah, 13. I mean, you still have, you know, at least five more years. Yeah, and there are going to be different developmental stages. Even though she's an adolescent, they go through different stages, you know, when they start to drive, when they start dating, when they say, so yeah, there's, but you've got the basics and you understand the basics and think that is what is so important no matter what your kid is going through. If you understand these basics like you said about communication and about connection that you've got the basics and that you at least know what's coming and you can kind of guide her along the way and you're not in that antagonistic relationship anymore. know things are great so and then, you know, like not freaking out as well. So like we just been on a vacation and you know, she bought like a expensive t -shirt, you know, and yesterday I was at work, you know, working from home and she came to me with the scissors and the t -shirt already started cutting part of it. And I was like bloody hell inside my head, like this is brand new t -shirt where you got like a really specific brand, you know, and you are cutting it. But yeah, but you know, like making hair on style.

 

Ann

Yes, cutting it with the scissors.

 

Anna

Before I would be like, poof, know, like very angry but I'm just going to say it, and I'll, okay, let me find a better scissors because the ones that you have are not really good and I will help you.

 

Ann

And that's so good. my God. Let me get you the better scissors so you can cut up this expensive t -shirt that I just bought for you. my God. That's so good. I don't know that I would be able to do that. Holy cow. Well, and if you look at it this way, I mean, you've already spent the money. The money is gone. No matter what they do. Yeah, that's right. It was her money. okay. Well, it was her money. So if she wanted to cut the sleeves off or cut a big

 

Anna

But that was kind of yeah

 

Anna

Yeah, it was her money. Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Ann

You know, that and that's the thing that I think so many of us forget is that, you know what? It's just fabric and the money is gone and why freak out about it and make a big scene. So wow, that's commendable that you were able to say, let's get the better scissors. wow. my God.

 

Anna

Yeah, and the other thing I really like is the weekly meetups with the parents. think that those are really fantastic and it's fantastic because you kind of feel like, I'm not on my own in here. There are other people who have very similar problems and we all try our best so meeting with those people every week, I look forward to it. That's my kind of highlight of the week because you kind of close to those people and kind of interested in and invested in their stories and that's my kind of really good part when people just talk and find their solutions together and even if it's not a solution it's just kind of just have a place where someone can hear you that's something really really good because you know there were many things which like I couldn't like okay I can speak with my husband and stuff but I just wanted someone else to hear me and someone else to say it's okay and you know it will get better so there were many situations where you know during those calls I felt like okay someone listens to me and someone is kind of there behind me so that was the best part as well for me

 

Ann

Yeah, and I know it's it's and I remember how hard it is because it's not like your friends or the or the moms at school or anyone is really talking about this with each other. Everything looks great from the outside and you know and it because everyone is afraid to talk about it. Everyone's afraid that you know it'll be embarrassing for me and no one will understand so no one talks about it. So yeah, I do.

 

 

Ann

I think it is important for us to have that camaraderie and understand that community and understand that other people go into the same thing.

 

Anna

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And there were like really good advices as well. So like when we first started having the therapy, we kind of, you know, didn't get along with the therapist and for me it was like okay you know we just have to continue and that's it but then when I kind of mentioned that on a group meeting it was like no if you don't get along you know people talk about the experience you talk about it and they were like no go and find someone else you know you can do it so it was like kind of obvious things but if you haven't been in that situation how do you know so you know then we follow some of the advices from you and the other parents and it kind of been a really successful for us you know to kind of do the things what other

 

 

Anna

they already gone through it, they already seen how it works. So that was another thing, because you don't know all that things.

 

 

Ann

Exactly, exactly. mean, having other people that have been there, gone through that particular little thing. I mean, and that's the thing, we're all in a different, you know, moment in our, I hate calling it a journey, but it is with adolescents. And so everybody, you know, there may be someone who's two steps ahead or someone who's 20 steps ahead. And, you know, they've already done it, seen it, done it. And yet there's so much to know and so much to experience that you can't possibly know

 

 

Ann

until you've been through it. yeah, that's a really good point. I mean, you said you had some other examples. I don't know if you want to give more if you can think of anything else that's happened with her or

 

Anna

Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, the other one was like, I was always worried about medication, you know, that with the depression in your medication, and is it good or bad or, know, different, but medication does make a difference. And, and I think, you know, the only thing what I was struggling with how slow it was, I wanted to fix things straight away. I wanted to go to the doctor. wanted to, it's like, like when you got flu.

 

you've got a daughter, get all your antibiotics and after one week you are good and I was rushing things as well with her. wanted things to be good as well and sometimes I would see a new thing popping out or some behavior which I don't like and I wanted to kind of straight away fix it. And you cannot fix things straight away. It takes time. So for me it's still kind of working on kind of having the patience that as you said it is journey. It's not something what, all right, you will go for the therapy for a month or two it's all fixed but you do see the changes so I wasn't seeing the changes like week from week but now after you know so many months when I look back I feel like geez we are in such a different place what we were before so you know that was kind of really you know like

 

You will not change in a month, you will not change within the two months, but you will see the changes, you know, it just takes time and be patient.

 

Anna

 

Yeah, I think that the biggest one is like punishment for example. us, punishment was always take the phone out, take the phone out, take the laptop out. And it was like, no, that's not, you know, so when we were listening to your kind of lessons and you asked about the whole section about punishment and we listened with my husband together and we had this kind of chat about like, okay, our only one thing always for punishing is take this stuff what she likes, which is the phone and the laptop. And it was like, well.

 

 

Anna

 

How connected is that with that? It's just kind of, you you gave us pain, so we'll give you pain. Like, that's kind of how it works. So, you know, after that kind of section, we were thinking about, okay, what are other options

 

Ann

Yes. Yes.

 

Anna

what should we be doing? And I remember the situation where she skipped school, like she, you know, she was at school and decided not to go on a lesson with some friends and, and hidden even so when the teachers were calling her, you know, she wouldn't even say the name. So, so I had a call and a panic like, you know, your daughter is missing from school and you know, where is she? And I was asking, where is she like blaming them? Because you know, you are responsible for her, for her during the school hours. So, so it was a little panic and she was fine, everything was fine but you know straight away was okay what is the punishment and I remember you know she came back and I think she was expected like I'll be really angry and I'll be like telling her off and being like you know what have you done why did you do that and and I already knew from the school that school that she will get a punishment from school school said that you know the next day they will be you know she will have to go to the principal or the counselor and she will have the doctor and you know she will have some kind of I don't know detention or something so I knew that there was already punishment so

 

So when she came back from school, you know, she kind of, you know, looked at me with those expecting eyes like, okay, something will be happening. I just said, you know, I'm fine that you are you're well, you know, and, you know, don't do that again, because, you know, people do worry about you. And, you know, and it's not good not to answer. So I just had like a very calm chat. And I've like, and I said, like, I understand that you will have, you know, some detention or school and they will be chatting. So, you know.

 

 

Anna

And that was it. And she was very surprised because her friend who was actually with her got like two weeks no phone. And it's time their parents, you know, think... Yeah, and I was feeling kind of bad because, you know, of course she had the phone so it wasn't kind of fair on the friend as well but as a parent you just have to do what is right for you. So it was this kind of those consequences and the punishment what works.

 

Ann

Yeah. Yep. Standard punishment.

 

 

 

Ann

Well, let me me ask you this real quick. did she I know that that was probably in the spring, right? When that happened? Was that in the spring? So parents worry they're like, OK, if I don't give a punishment for this and if I don't double punish because the school's already punished. But if I don't do something and I just do what you did, well, she's just going to think she can do it again. She'll just do it again. Did she do it again?

 

Anna

Yeah, Well, I say, if you'll do it again, we will have to think about some other. But I understand that this is the first time and there's nothing you will have punishment from us. But we did say that if it will happen again, we will have to think about it. And it didn't happen again. No. Yeah, no. So it was kind of good. And of course, then in the evening when we had like, so again, it was 11 o 'clock in the evening.

 

Ann

But did she do it again? Did she do it? Nope. So, yeah.

 

Anna

I just made myself some herbal tea and I came to her room just to kind of chat and she was saying, you know what, I did do that before, you know, like she skipped the school before.

 

 

Anna

But no one has noticed. But she told me like and I said well you know they might have and then again like do you freak out and I was like well you know I understand that probably that worry because they didn't have this new system and now they've the system and every lesson is monitored. I said that now if you will do it again they will find out because they've got this new system so I wouldn't recommend. No. No. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Ann

Would you have ever imagined she would have confessed something like that to you? So she saw that you didn't freak out and she felt comfortable in telling you, you know what, mom, I've actually done this before and didn't get caught. So yeah, and those are the kinds of things that you want to know that you want your kid to be able to share with you. And if we do freak out, they're never going to end up sharing things with you. yeah, so that that is wonderful. And

 

 

Ann

She didn't do it again. So there you go. Awesome.

 

 

Anna

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think all while I was talking about the room cleaning, so I used to be like really upset with the dirtiness in the room, the laundry not done and all that stuff

 

Ann

yeah.

 

Anna

Now when I kind of see her room really messy, you know, and she will always say, yeah, I'll do it later, I'll do that. And I'll say like, do you mind if I'll just pick up a things because I'm doing the laundry. So it's my problem. I don't like the dirt. So like I'll go and I'll kind of offer some help. And I remember, you

 

One evening when I was actually the late evening and we were chatting and I'll say I'll just put your clothes in a cupboard and she's like no don't worry about it I'll actually do it myself you don't have to do it She didn't do it again, but you know, but it was just kind of you know, one of those things It's not always perfect, you know They see you know through you, but it was like okay, it's my issue with the room So if I want it clean, you know, I can offer to help but I don't get involved into you know, like

 

Tidying up and making things like that's worth

 

Ann

first thing about it. Yeah, yeah. Well, and actually I was just writing a podcast episode last night about how, you you can always offer and say, why don't I help you pick up these things for a few minutes or whatever? and that's kind of sounds like what you're doing. I mean, once you get them started on it, but I think it's so hard just walk in and say, you know, can you go do this, please? Yeah, because they it's hard for them to get going and get started. So I think that's that's brilliant that you, you know, kind of offer to help or, you know, like you said, if it's your problem, then you go go do what you feel like you need to do. Yeah, it's not like they're not going to learn how to clean their room one day because we I don't think any of us kept a clean room.

 

Anna

Do it. Yeah.

 

Anna

Yeah. You deliver,

 

Ann

when we were teenagers, right? Nobody cares about that when they're... Yeah, I know mine was piled. Yeah, my house was piled, my room was piled high. Okay, so again, I don't wanna keep you any longer, but can you think of anything else? Do you wanna say anything else

 

Anna

No, I don't even remember, yeah. Probably my mom cleaned my house, yeah.

Yeah, well the other thing was like, you know, I remember with her makeup and the outfits and you know, me kind of not liking it, like she did tell me like, mom, if you will not, and that was really mature, I was like really taken aback, she was like, mom, if you will not accept me, who else will? And that was like, you know, like, well that is

 

Ann

That's profound.

 

Anna

Yeah, I was like, you know, that's true. Like if we don't accept our own kids, how can they feel accepted? Even if they are different, they were differently,

 

Ann

Yes. Yes.

 

Anna

have their little quirks and issues like if we don't accept them, know, what's the chance they will accept themselves? You know, was like, I don't know where it came from with her, but it was like, since then, like I was like, okay, let's go do makeup shopping together. And don't complain because that's true. Like, you know, if I'm there and she had problems at school, you know, with her dress style, you know, she was kind of, you know, she doesn't want to say that she was bullied, but she would be called names or, you know, the kids can be pretty nasty.

 

 

Ann

Yeah. Yep.

 

Anna

So it did happen and it was like, okay, if she doesn't have that acceptance at home, was the chances that she will accept herself. So that was another thing which was like, yeah, we, we did not expect them to be those, you know, for me it will be the perfect Lululemon girl with, you know. Yeah, yeah, about the kids, like what we want.

 

 

Ann

Yes, absolutely, because we have these ideas in our head of what they're going to be like. Yeah, yeah, and we can't, you know, we can't make them be who we want them to be. They're actually individuals and they have their own taste and their own. Yep, it's so hard. mean, I was. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

 

Anna

No. Mm -hmm. Yeah. -huh. Yeah. But it's such a big switch because when they're little, you buy all their clothes, you do everything, do they dress the way you want, you know? I know that there are some terrible twos and stuff, but there is usually a time where they like follow everything and then there's this switch where, no, you know, now they their own person and you have to support them. So that was really big for me and the other one was really interesting was also, you know...

 

when she was diagnosed with depression and we had a really bad time I felt really bad I felt really low and had really bad mood and like not bad mood like angry mood but very low mood like you could see yeah like very big sadness and I'm usually very very cheerful person so and she did kind of you know one evening when we were talking she said to me like mom don't do it and don't make it about yourself it's my thing

 

Ann

Just sad.

 

Anna

And it was just another thing like, if they go through such a difficult time and, you know, don't, don't, don't kind of make like, I'm suffering as well, you know, it's not your time. So that was really kind of, you know, very mature from her and kind of eye opening for me, like, don't make it about yourself. It's my thing, you know, and as a parent, you will kind of

 

Anna

I don't know if that was the therapist telling her that or what but yeah but it was like I was like

 

Ann

don't know, but that is, mean, she's very insightful for her age, it sounds like, for one thing. And yeah, maybe the therapy, maybe the therapy is helping her to realize these things. But yeah, I mean, and I think as a parent, we do make it about us. Because it's like, have I failed somehow? Why is this child?

 

Anna

Yeah, you feel like, so then my neighbors will judge me, my friends will judge me. And it's like, like, who cares if they judge you? you know, like, who is more important for you, your child or your, you know, your neighbors or your people around you?

 

 

Ann

Exactly. And it's so hard to get there. I mean, it's so hard to get there because I remember feeling feeling very judged and being very embarrassed about what my son was wearing and what he was doing and the trouble he was getting into. But yeah, we have to focus on the fact that A, this is our child and you our responsibility and we have to be there to support them. And if we're distracted by what everybody else is thinking about us,

 

 

Ann

you know, or we're distracted by, poor me. And, you know, here I am with this kid who has issues. Yeah, we can't do what's right by our child. And while, and yeah, I mean, while it is, it is sad when we see our child sad or we see them in pain, there's nothing worse. I mean, there's just nothing worse, but to be able to hear it from her that mom,

 

Anna

No. Yeah, yeah.

 

Ann

this is not about you, this is about me. And, you know, let's focus on the support and move forward and knowing that this does end and that they can get better and that they will get better because I think if they see us feeling hopeless and feeling bad about, you know, it just makes them feel more hopeless. It's kind of like when I fly, I always look at the stewardess.

 

Anna

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

 

Ann

or no, not stewardess, flight attendants. Yeah, and I'm like, if they're okay, I'm okay. If they get freaked out, I know I'm supposed to get freaked out. And I think it's the same with parents. If our kids see us freaking out or getting upset because they're upset, then it just spirals out of control. But if we can be that calm presence for them and that rock that they can depend on, then things will get better for them a lot quicker than it might have. Yeah, otherwise.

 

 

Anna

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I think that's, it's all kind of, we think that it's all kids, but it's really us. Yeah, and you know, everything else will fall into place.

 

Ann

Mm -hmm. Okay.

 

Anna

Yeah, and I'm always looking forward to your next subject. Now I'm kind of all about the vaping and the drugs and worrying about that. But now I'm kind of more open about it. I will say like, man, I'm so worried about all that vaping, what's going around. And I will kind of just say openly about it. So she knows that it's kind of coming versus not talking about it and then freaking out. So it's like sharing with her.

 

 

Anna

does the next thing and that's like watch out

 

Ann

Yes, that's so good. mean, that's a good something that you raised just right there. Just talking out loud about our concerns and our feelings about things. It's such good. A, it's good modeling for them to understand that you can just talk out loud about your concerns and your worries and your feelings and then bringing things up like that, like the baby before they happen.

 

Anna

Yeah.

 

Ann

and letting them know where you stand on it or letting them know that you're worried about it or just easing them into those conversations without a lecture. Without, yeah, because that's the hard part is you want a lecture, you want to say, okay, now let me tell you about this vaping thing. You don't want to do that because A, C, but if you can just like gently bring it up here and there and let that be a topic. Right.

 

Anna

Yeah, yeah, like when you see something on the news or something, you know, something happening, it's just like, you know, just, you know, tell them about it. And also, like also being open about your own feelings. So if I've got a hard time at work, or if I'm like really, you know, upset with something, it's just kind of being open.

 

Ann

Exactly. Exactly.

 

 

Anna

about it as well so they understand that talking about the feelings is really good. Before in my family we wouldn't talk much about the feelings, know. People would have their moods and we would just kind of, alright someone is moody and that's it, know, or make some sarcastic joke which probably was even worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Ann

Yeah, walk around them and jab them a little bit about it. Yeah. But now so everybody in the family is more open to talking about it.

 

Anna

Yeah, yeah, not like, you know, like my son is still kind of against it, you know, he will, he will, he hates like, you know, mental health is not real, he keeps saying to me, but I think he just says it for my reaction. So he says like, mental health is not real, emotions are for weak people, you know, he wants to be the really, he wants to be the really hard boy, you know, and, and he said, so he's 11. Yeah, yeah, so he's like, emotions are not real. And I was

 

 

Ann

How old is he though? I thought he was 11. Okay, all right, yeah.

 

Anna

Well, you know, in the morning when you were playing Fortnite and you've lost, how are you feeling? Yeah, but I think the kids do it. Kids do those things to get your reaction. They just want you to know. So instead of me like, you know, like maybe before I would say like, you're talking rubbish. You don't know what you're talking about.

 

Ann

Yeah, it seemed pretty real. It seemed pretty real to me when you were throwing your fit. my God.

 

Ann

Yes.

 

Anna

That's it, you know, now I kind of, you know, just that patience and it's quite funny because like at work I could be really patient person. That's kind of what brought me home, you know, in the beginning, like I was surprised like how calm I could be at work and how good I could be, you know, with my teams. And then why wouldn't I be the same at home to the people who I love? Like, why would you treat those people differently at home? would be like a hot potato, you know.

 

 

Ann

Yep. Yep.

 

Anna

But so then kind of, yeah.

 

Ann

We're all like that. mean, we have, you we know we have to be on at work and we have to be calm. We, you know, we might get fired or we might get, you know, whatever, demoted or whatever it is. But at home, we feel more relaxed to do whatever we want to do. But then when you realize that, you know, why am I treating, yeah, like the people that I love any less than the people that I work with at work? I mean, it's kind of an eye -opening thing.

 

Anna

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

 

Ann

Um, but you said something about him being 11. Let me say this because this is the age when they first kind of realize that they can have thoughts that are different from their parents and they, they, they're able to process things more analytically and see things more objectively. And so what that is is practicing. They're practicing their new way of being able to process things and think of things. And they're like, oh my God, I can have a different opinion from the, yes, from the adults in my family. And yeah, let me just challenge them on everything. And it's kind of interesting, but that is exactly. And my son is still like that at 23. He has a different opinion about everything that I have an opinion about. And normally I used to long ago.

 

 

Ann

I would have the debate and do the arguing and argue my point. Now I'm like, you know what? You may be right. I don't know. I'm not really sure. It's not worth the argument. It's just not worth it. my God.

 

Anna

Yeah, and I think that was interesting with him as well because as I was putting more time with my daughter, he noticed that straight away and I could see him being meaner to me as well. He was kind of angry that he didn't get all the attention. then it was, you know...He has also kind of my type of personality where he will like when he gets angry he goes from zero to hundred within a few seconds so it was kind of before I was also with him very short and kind of you know if he would kind of really like he plays the fortnight and he gets upset when he loses and he would like throw the things out and it would be like right upstairs you know to your room you know you don't do that it's kind of you know now you know it was kind of okay you know

 

 

Anna

I would pick up the device and I would say, you know, we don't do that and that would be it. And he would say to me, shut up. And he would be like, okay, still kind of still challenging. And he was like not to get into his kind of mental state, like, what? You don't say shut up to me. You don't like, and I wouldn't say just nothing. I'll just pick up that thing and I would remove myself and then a few hours later I would just say like, okay, you don't say shut up to me, know, like I don't say that to you, you don't say that to me and that would be, you know, it when he would become and now it's kind of much better as well. So even with him, it was kind of the stuff what I've learned from you, it wasn't just one child, was our whole family kind of embraced that. And then I had to find something what we both enjoy doing. So, you know, if I spend time so much with my daughter, it was okay. What...title things he would enjoy doing with me and it's a Costco shopping here. yeah, I so him so for him is the most favorite thing if he sits like and if I will come to him and I will like lie down next to him and I will just watch like and I will just comment so for him is like the top thing you know to to like me

 

Ann

Right. Have you learned how to play Fortnite? yeah, they love that. just acting like you're interested in what they're doing. I mean, I can remember that as a kid, just wanting my parents to understand what it was I was into. And I think that's so important and most of us don't get it. We're so busy and I, you know, it's just so hard to take that time to do that. But has that made a difference in?

 

 

Anna

totally, yeah, yeah. And the other thing we do is the Costco shopping. You wouldn't believe, but he loves Costco shopping. Yeah, yeah. I know it.

 

Ann

funny, loves going to Costco. I mean, that's the thing, it doesn't matter what it is. It could be a little tiny thing like that, but it's something that brings you together and that you can connect over. Anna, that's wonderful. I just love that. Yeah, and he's on the cusp. mean, he's right there. Boys mature a little bit slower. They're slower, you know, starting puberty, but he's in that, you know, pre -teen, pre -adolescent stage.

 

Anna

Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah.

 

 

Ann

So it'll hit with him in the next couple of years too. He may be 13 before it hits, but still. But yeah, the same principles apply. Yeah, all ages. Yeah, to all ages, the same principles apply. Well, I'm so glad for you that things are better and that things are, you know, at least you are at a point where you feel comfortable in the relationships and you feel comfortable with what you're doing and you're learning every day. And

 

Anna

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it was apply. Yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking of.

 

Anna

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah, you feel like you are kind of now I've got the knowledge, know, like, why feel like, you know, they should make it mandatory for people to kind of go through it and understand, you know, no one does it, you know, no one talks about it. it just kind of, we all want to we just fall into what we our parents were doing and maybe those things for sure weren't the best and all the kids are different and it's just like I'm just angry sometimes that I haven't kind of know go you early but if you don't have a problem you don't find the solution so I was thinking like I don't have a problem you know and I didn't understand that I did had a problem

 

Ann

Exactly. Yeah, and that's a biggie because me too, I was right there too. I thought it was the kid and not me. you know, so it's a big, it's a big realization to go, wait, maybe I need to make some changes and do some things. And, you know, obviously, the kids have to make some changes too. But the great thing about it is when we change,

 

Anna

Yeah. Yeah.

 

 

Ann

They change, you know, that's the wonderful thing. And that's the dynamic that it is when we make the changes, they have changes too. So it just, just works that way. So I'm glad that of the path that you're on and I'm so happy to be a part of it and to know your family and to, to be in the space that I am, that I can kind of help people figure these things out. So I do, I love my job. I love my job now.

 

Anna

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah, you've got lovely job. Yeah it's well, it's amazing to have something that you're passionate about, you know.

 

Ann

It is, it so much is. Well, thank you. And thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And I'm sure it's going to help parents to understand, you know, what changes can happen when you when you learn these things and go through this stuff. So thank you for

 

Anna

Yeah, yeah, totally.