Ann

Are you one of the many, many parents these days who struggle to get your teen or tween to go to school regularly? Maybe they just completely refuse to go at all or maybe you can get them there sometimes but not always or just for part of the day.

Well, if you don’t already know, you are NOT alone. There are so many teens these days who simply cannot bear going to school. Maybe it’s social anxiety or anxiety about a particular class or maybe they’re being bullied or feel all alone or have learning issues that make school unbearable for them.

But what do you do as a parent? You can’t just let them quit school. And we’re told not to let anxiety win out. But at this age we can’t simply pick them up and put them in the car and march them in the door either.

It’s a major dilemma with no simple solution. But there are lots of avenues depending on your situation and your school. Stay with me, because today I’m talking to newly retired school counselor and host of The Teen Anxiety Maze, Cynthia Coufal about the various tactics you can use with your kid’s school to tackle the school refusal challenge.

This is Speaking of Teens, the podcast that helps parents who are struggling to find peace and connection with their teens. My name is Ann Coleman; I’m an attorney turned parent educator and a mom who’s been there - and I want to help you build a stronger relationship and decrease the conflict with your kid so you can help them grow into the young adult they’re meant to be.

I started by asking Cynthia about the school’s point of view, what they’ve been seeing as far as school refusal and what schools can do to help the situation with the individual student.

 

Cynthia Coufal

Okay, well it is really difficult because we were seeing it a lot, I mean we were seeing it before the pandemic, but after the pandemic it was huge. And we can't go to the home and bring the kid to school and we did have a few parents that if they could get their kid to the school building, you know like to the door, I was willing to go out and you know, talk to them and coax them in. And we tried to do a lot of things where, okay, let's do maybe you're going to come to school in the morning for, you know, this week but you can go home after lunch or, you know, this week you'll come after lunch and you'll stay, you know, the rest of the day or you'll come to school the whole day but for the morning you'll go to your classes and then in the afternoon we'll set and try to get you caught up in some things.

You know, you haven't been able to get caught up on and like come up with a plan of how are we going to get out of this mess? Because I remember getting overwhelmed like that in school and it is almost like I give up, I'm done, I can't do this. And I don't even have anxiety. So, I can't imagine if, you know, someone who actually has a lot of problems managing themselves, and then they have this overwhelming lot of work to do.

 

 

Cynthia Coufal

I would also, in the school setting, I, as a school counselor, and teachers can advocate or do this too, but I a lot of times talk to all the teachers and I would say, what absolutely has to be done? Like what is in your class? And every teacher is different. So you know, one teacher would say, oh, they just need to do these two assignments and they're going to be fine. And then we would just wave all the rest of them and say, okay, you don't have to do these, because these are the things that you really need to know. And some teachers are not going to agree with this, but I feel like every teacher should have, probably has some kind of fluff busy work that really doesn't have to be done in order to show that the child does understand the concept or can pass a test or whatever. So there's a lot of, I did just a ton of different kinds of problem solving with everyone that, you know, in the school, like how can we, help this child feel good about coming back. And I would just have honest conversations with them about, you know, don't tell me what I want to hear. Tell me what is going to get you in the door. What is going to, what, if we could wave this or that or whatever, what would you be, you know, would you be willing to come if you didn't have to do this? Or would you be willing to come if you didn't have these assignments? And sometimes the things they want are things that cannot be done, like.

Some of our like required classes for graduation, they would be like, well, I don't want to do that class. Well, you have to do the class, but how can we make the class doable for you? I had a girl who she did a lot of school avoidance too, but towards the end, she actually wanted to graduate and she had to come in order to get our grades to be able to graduate and speech was, um, you know, public speaking was required to graduate. I know. And public speaking is, it causes anxiety for every single person in the world, but especially someone who doesn't wanna get in front of the class and talk on their own. So she had already failed it two or three times. And this was the second semester of her senior year. If she did not pass this class, she was not gonna graduate. And so I said, okay, what can we do? We gotta make this work. And she said, well, if I could do my first one just with the teacher and maybe you or a couple of other people so I can kind of ease into the fact that I've got to get in front of people and we did that and so it was the teacher and me and maybe a couple of students that she felt comfortable with or something we did a very small group she did her speech and then the teacher said we can't she has to then get in front of the class like we can't do this every time.

So I'm like, okay, well, we did one. So we got that one checked off. And I said, now you have to do it in the class. So what is the thing that's gonna help you the most if you, cause you know you have to be in front of the class. And she said, could you just be in there at the back of the room where I can just look at you and I won't look around, you know, and you know, maybe she would get a few points cause you're supposed to look around. And I was like, who cares? Just look at me. Say the words and get, you know, let's get it checked off your list because you won't fail it. You'll maybe get a bad grade. And at this point I was like, get a, we only had ABC and then it was failure. So I said, just get a C minus or whatever and like, get this, yeah, get this class out of your, out of your way. So I was in the back of the class every time I would put it on my calendar, make sure, you know, I had that time saved.

 

Cynthia Coufal

for her to go to her class and give her nice smiles and warm fuzzies so she could get it done. And she did those. And then the very last speech that she had to do in May before the school was out, I don't know, we had some sort of emergency at school, some kind of crazy thing happened and I couldn't go to the class, but she didn't know it. And I didn't even have time to tell her that I wasn't gonna be there. And she did it all by herself because we had worked up like a ladder of what we could do to get there. And she did it. And then she was so proud of herself because she's like, I did that without you? And I'm like, you can do anything. And so that's kind of how I worked with, that's a small example, but every school is going to be different.

But I would really, I mean, if I was the parent of a child who was having that and my daughter did have anxiety, but she was never diagnosed in school, like while she was in up through 12th grade, she was actually diagnosed as an adult. But, and she was pretty outgoing, her anxiety had more to do with health issues, like her own, like if she had different, like if she had a headache, she would think she had a brain tumor or her stomach hurt, she had a, you know, cancer or whatever. And then she also worried about me dying a lot, like she didn't like me to leave the house because I might die or you know she said I felt like if I was with you then I you would be fine but if I wasn't with you might die so she had that kind of stuff so going to school wasn't I mean the only thing about going to school was that then we were separated but I was going to work so even her staying home wasn't gonna help that so um so I her friends and she was very actively involved in school. She just had just a lot of other things, I guess, going on.

So I didn't have to worry about the school thing, but I did, my oldest, I don't know that he had anxiety, but he avoided school or wanted to avoid school, but we didn't allow it. Now, I only say that because I do think if I would have been nicer and let him stay home a lot, it would have become a huge problem. And I was just like, we don't stay home. You go to school. There were a few times, because he did have some other mental health things that weren't anxiety, but he didn't sleep very well. And so if I knew he had a really bad night with a ton of nightmares or night terrors, I did let him sleep the next day, or we would sleep until lunchtime and then I would have him go. Another thing that I, go ahead.

 

Ann

I want to ask you, so a lot of the parents, you know, their schools, first of all, there's not even counselor in many of these schools. You know, well, I mean, you know, I mean, there's a shortage of counselors nationwide and so, you know, there are some, um, some districts that the whole district, they don't have a counselor. So you're then dealing with truancy officers and the office lady or, you know, whatever. Yeah. That's the problem is that, you know, these parents don't know what to do.

 

Cynthia Coufal

Oh, that's not good. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And they're not going to be nice or... Yeah.

 

Ann

You know, they have this policy in place. If you miss so many times, you get a letter and, you know, the parent gets called in on the carpet. They're in trouble. Yeah. And then, you know, and then so, I mean, I just wonder if, if you have any suggestions for parents who, you know, whose kids attend one of these schools where there's no counselor. And I mean, who do you think would be the best, the next best person to try to talk to?

 

Cynthia Coufal

Well, somebody in the school has to be in charge of accommodations for regular education students, like, you know, there's special education where, you know, that kind of stuff can be put into an IEP, but for all the other kids, they also can get modifications and accommodations through a 504 plan, which is through general education, not through special education. And somebody in every school is in charge of that.

Sometimes it is the counselor, sometimes it's a principal, sometimes it just depends on who, how big the school is and how they set their things up. But somebody has to be in charge of that. And so you could just ask in your school, who's in charge of 504 plans? Now their kids don't just get a 504 plan because they don't want to come to school or because you know, like there has to be a diagnosable issue.

But if your child already has diagnosed anxiety or is taking meds for it or goes to a therapist or goes to a doctor that prescribes meds, that person can write something saying, you know, this child is suffering from, you know, whatever these diagnoses are and we recommend that the, I don't know that I would have them recommend what the accommodations are, but just say, we recommend that you look at accommodating time or accommodating assignments or something like that. And that's something that you can show to your school and open up a conversation with whoever that is with, you know, we really need some help with this. But there's nothing wrong with parents just asking the teachers, like, you know, my child is really struggling. I'm having a hard time getting them to come to school.

Part of it is being overwhelmed because now that they've missed school, they're now behind, can you help me come up with a plan for what really absolutely needs to be done? What can we avoid? The parent might be able to do that all on their own. I think most teachers, they're there because they want to help kids and they want kids to be successful. So I think that most teachers would work with you.

Now, you're going to come across a few of those people that are like, they have to do everything. This isn't my problem kind of thing. And then that's where, you know, somebody who coordinates accommodations or somebody that you could talk to help you with that. But I know there's gotta be someone, I guess if it was a really small school, it might be somebody in the central office or the, you know, the office, yeah, the district office might be where that person would be housed. But I think that it's probably mandatory that every school have somebody that helps with that because it's under the children with disabilities. Yeah, there's like some, I just worked there. I don't know.

 

Ann

Yeah, I know. And I've got to get somebody to talk about this stuff even further. We've got to talk about these IEPs and 504s because my son was on an IEP and I still don't know everything there is to know about it. But let me ask you this, because this is another thing that comes up with kids with anxiety. Therapists will tell you, and I've had a therapist on that will tell you that if they don't go you're feeding the beast, you're just making it worse. And with my son, we had the same thing. He didn't go for several days in a row, the first of, I think it was 11th grade. He talked to a psychologist whom we just happened to have an appointment with, thank God, and he went the next day. I still to this day don't know what she said to him, but he started going back. So, and she told me as we were leaving.

You know, if he doesn't go, it's just going to get worse and it's going to get worse and he's not going to want to go. So, but then on the other hand, I look at it and I see that school as far as an anxiety producing environment, there cannot be anything worse. I really don't think there could be much worse.

The schools and you know, I sound like some, you know, old crotchety…but the schools these days, it just sucks for kids. They, you know, I think you and I talked off air about how they're not allowed to go to the bathroom when they need to go to the bathroom. They're not, you know, they get so many minutes in between classes. They may be eating lunch at 10.30 in the morning. It starts at, you know, 7.30, 8.30 and their brains will not allow them to go to sleep until around midnight. So they're not getting the sleep that they need, all these things.

And then you have, like you said, you have some teachers who are not willing to be flexible. You may have some administrators who are unwilling to be flexible. You may not have a counselor at your school. So it just makes me wonder, and I don't even know if I have a question here, it just makes me wonder whether we should push our kids who are anxious, who are legitimately anxious, not those who are just, oh, I got behind and I just don't wanna go or whatever, but those who are legitimately anxious, and I'll say too, I don't know, it's hard for parents to know the difference, but should we push them or should we not push them? Should we allow them to start doing online school? Those are the questions that parents have. They're like, I don't know what to do. And you said a minute ago, we just didn't allow our son to stay at home.

Well, my question is, because I had a son who was at least my height at that point, if not much bigger, how in the hell are you supposed to make them go if they refuse?

 

Cynthia Coufal

Well, that's, that one's tricky. And I, I think I was just lucky probably because, well, for one, I think that this all starts at the very beginning, the relationship with you that you have with your kid to begin with. Yeah. Because the relationship, I was very, I had a close relationship with both of my kids. And so if I said, I really need you to do this, because this is what we want in our, you know, home or whatever, they were willing to do it.

You know, they might've, he failed a lot of classes and he drug his feet a lot. But I mean, he did do it. And his dad was also scary, which I'm not with anymore. So that might've had something to do with it. Yeah. And I'm not a scary person, but he was. Um, so I think that there is something with, if you don't have a very good relationship with them, this is just becomes another battle that you're not going to stop.

My sister's daughter would refuse to go to school and they absolutely could not make her. I mean, she was breaking the doors off the house. She broke the windshield of their car. I mean, like, you know, all the, she was just doing, she was going crazy. And so, and I thought, oh gosh, you know, you can't always make them because you have all these problems. So I'm not against, I think that they should talk with the child about what can we do to make school work for you.

 

Cynthia Coufal

And like just be really, have them be honest, you be honest, try to make that work. And so I just, that's called collaborative problem solving at school, but it's, it's probably called like that in parenting too, where you, both people need to win, we need a win-win here. So we need you to go to school and, the school needs something from you.

So how can we make this work? I've had students that decided to do online school and it was the best decision they ever made because they just had such a hard time. But that's a difficult decision to make for parents because for one, a lot of parents are working, they're not at home. So then it's just another time for the child to not do anything because there's nobody there to make them do it. And I had a lot of kids that just didn't want to do anything. And I'm not saying that anxiety wasn't part of it,

There was also this school work refusal. They just wouldn't do any more work. And so the parents were like, I can't stand this anymore. I'm just letting them stay home. They can do this online thing.

Well, then they failed all of that. And school is mandatory. And so they have to get grades, and they have to pass and move on. So then we'd get them back and they were really behind because now the parents are like, well, you tried that too bad, it didn't work out, now you gotta go back to school. And then they're a semester to a year behind in school and you can't make that up quickly in high school. It's like just too hard. And so, yeah, it can get really messy, but I think talking to them and if you really, as a parent, you would know, I think if your child's gonna do the work, if they decide to do online.

And like I said, I had some that it was the best decision that family ever made because they fought them all the time. And then when they were at home, they just flew through the work because they just, they liked the autonomy of it. They liked it. They didn't have to wait for their classmates to get through a lesson. They could just get done, especially if they knew how to do it.

And that's the part that we're missing in regular public school. We need to have places in school where they can do it their way. And we don't have that too often. So that's kind of the tricky part. So I think that just having a heart to heart makes sure that you're getting the absolute truth from your child about why they don't want to. And if it is more of a, I just don't wanna do that work. I would talk to kids a lot about, school is actually, even though school is boring and they're doing weird things, then you can't go to the bathroom sometimes or whatever, which isn't like real life.

There are things you're learning in school like real life. Like when things are boring sometimes you have to do them anyway. Then you have an annoying boss but you really need that job. You're gonna have to do what they say to do and you know be uncomfortable for a couple of hours so that you can you know make money. And I know you don't make money at school but those skills that you learn about dealing with people who are annoying, dealing with people who are rude, doing work that's boring that you don't want to do, that's a life skill.

So I would talk to them about that. If you can't look at school like, what's this doing for me? This is a waste of my time, which sometimes I would agree with them that, yeah, it does really seem like a waste of time. And what you're talking about, I don't really agree with either. But here's what you're going to learn in that class, or here's what is going to help you. And this is a skill that you need as an adult. It's a little bit more digestible to them if it's like, this is why this is important for later on. So, you know, a conversation you could have like that, I think, can be helpful. But I feel like a lot of times when we had complete school refusal before the pandemic, a lot of it was kind of, it was like the coddling and the babying them so much at the beginning that by the time they got to high school was like, well, what's the purpose of me? Well, my parents don't make me do it anyway, so now I'm really not gonna do it. I don't know.

 

Ann

Yeah, yeah, no, I can see that there are situations like that. Absolutely. And I can see that there are situations that are so bad with the anxiety that it's just not even possible to get them to go to school. I mean, we, you know, my son went after that psychologist talked to him, but then by the time but by the middle, I think it was the middle of that year, we had pulled him out and I was homeschooling him just because of, you know, his anxiety was causing so many issues with him acting out and doing, and getting in trouble and doing all these things he'd never in his life done before. So I just thought, you know, to avoid those problems, we'll just do it at home, but I worked from home. I could do it.

You know, it's just, I just, I feel so bad for parents who don't have that ability to stay home and keep an eye on it because if you've got a kid who's getting in trouble and acting out, the worst thing you can do really is keep them at home with nobody around to see what they're up to. So it is, it's, I just feel so sorry for parents and I was never so happy when we finished with high school and I say we because I feel like I was doing it too. And I felt like it was a damn 13 year long prison sentence, to be honest, because mine had ADHD, dyslexia, all the things. And when you're the parent of a kid who has those issues, it's you that feels like, you know, you're constantly in trouble and you're constantly trying to, you know, help them catch up. It is just such miseries. I wish there was a way to do school better. But, you know, that's that may be 40 years down the road.

 

Cynthia Coufal

Well, and there are some schools too that the thing that saved my son and this, he graduated in 02, so a long time before there were online options and stuff, which I certainly would have looked into at that time, because he was struggling so much, but we just worked it out where he could go to work part of the day. And so that was motivating enough for him that he was like, okay, I'll go to school till noon if I can go to work after that. And credits weren't so strict then about like what credits you got and how many you needed to graduate. So he didn't need as many as they need now. But we would have tried to have worked it out. I'm sure where he could have gotten the credits. And I've seen some schools where if a child goes to work, they give them some kind of, I don't know, vocational. Yeah, some kind of credit that could like an elective credit that could help them get to the whatever number they needed to.

So that's another option because I think a lot of times if you can just kind of dig into what is it that your child wants in their adult life because not finishing school is a disaster when you, what are you gonna do as an adult if you don't finish school? Like you have to do that in order to go on to the next part. So find out what is the next part that they want.

 

Ann

Oh my gosh – I think that’s such a good point and I want to come back around to that after I dig into a key takeaway here – and that’s your role in advocating for your kid.

As Cynthia mentioned, she was the type of school counselor who would work with the student and try her best to coax them into the building and help them ease into whatever frightened them or talk to the teachers and help find middle ground when a kid had missed school because of anxiety (and then didn’t want to return because now they’re so overwhelmed with how far behind they are.)

So, if you’re actually lucky enough to have a school counselor or the equivalent at your school who you can reach out to for help, then do it. But as we know, some counselors are not that type of counselor and many schools have no counselor at all.

As she said, if you don’t have a school counselor, reach out until you find an ally at that school. If it’s not at the school itself then you may have to find someone at the district office and if you get no help there, go the level above that.

And I know you may be nervous about being too pushy or too loud. But let me tell you this – schools and school systems are bureaucracies like any other and everyone that works there in any capacity has crap to deal with all day long.

So, if you’re the meek and mild or quiet type who takes what they tell you the first time as the final answer, you are going to get nowhere. They are going to appease you the best they can at the moment and shove you aside.

When you are advocating for your kid and trying to find a solution that will get them through school – because that’s what we’re talking about here – getting them there and getting them through it – when we’re talking about something this important, you cannot be quiet, and you may even have to end up being a little loud and even a bit pushy.

That may be totally out of your comfort zone but going to school right now is out of your child’s comfort zone and you are their person – you have to get this worked out for them.

So, your first step is talking to your child to try and figure out what the real issue is – is it a class, that they’re too far behind to feel they can catch up, is it a particular teacher or another student? You can’t really even ask for help until you have a better idea of what’s going on. Cynthia mentioned collaborative problem solving and I talk about that in episode 16 – how you do that with your teen – so go back and listen to that to help you talk to your teen about this.

Then reach out to whomever you can at the school for help. See if you can set up a meeting or if they will talk to your child or work with the teachers to figure something out. Do not take their answer and walk away if it’s not satisfactory. There’s nothing to be afraid of. I think some of us feel like we’re back in school and “in trouble” and we feel a bit intimidated by school officials.

Well don’t. You’re an adult now and these folks are employees and in the states at least, your taxes pay their salaries. And most of them will want to help – but they may be really busy or some may try to brush you off, give you the “rules are rules” speech, tell you there’s nothing they can do, or send you to someone else.

And this is where knowing the rules and the actual law about what your schools must provide, where you live, is important. Do your research first. Understand if there are any hard and fast rules or limitations and be ready to argue for an exception if you need to. There’s always a way to make an exception. Always.

Just remember there’s a fine line between being your kid’s advocate and making everyone so mad that they’ll fight tooth and nail against you. It’s not easy to walk that line but here’s my 2 cents: When I was practicing family law – divorces, custody, that sort of thing, I’d have clients ask me all the time (usually the men), “Can you be a bitch?” Meaning, “Can you roll all over my future ex wife and her attorney and get me what I want?” And this is what I’d tell them – “Me being a bitch is not going to get you what you want. It’s simply going to make the other side fight us even harder to keep you from getting what you want.”

When you’re advocating for anyone, whether it’s a client or your child, you have to be pleasant and civil and at least look like you agree with a lot of what they say. You have to get them to like you, so they want to throw you a bone, do you a favor, help you out. And that doesn’t happen by being a bitch.

However, (and here’s that line) your goal is to get what you need for your client – your teen - so you push but you push nicely. You acknowledge the answer you get (that isn’t the answer you want) and then you suggest what could be done instead.

For example, let’s say you ask the counselor at school if they will talk to your teen’s teachers to see if there are any assignments that can simply be taken out of the equation since your child missed a few days due to anxiety and now feels so behind they just can’t face it and they don’t want to go to school.

The counselor says, “Yeah, well, I’ve never done that before. Generally, what the teacher says goes so I don’t interfere with that.” You can say something like, “I totally understand. I’m sure that’s difficult for you to feel like maybe you’re telling them what to do. I wonder if you presented it differently – let them know exactly what’s been going on with Rob and have them look at his work so far this year so they can see he’s been doing what he’s supposed to - but explain how his very real anxiety is keeping him away from school because the work has piled up. I think they’d understand, don’t you?”

And of course, if the situation is that the counselor won’t help, you can go directly to the teachers in this particular case. You may need help from your child’s therapist or psychiatrist. You may need help from a friend or family member who’s more assertive than you and can help you through it. Bottom line – you are the one that can help get your child through this. So, be nice but don’t mess around. Talk to whomever you need to talk to and don’t be shy or intimidated.

And finally, what Cynthia said about digging into what your child wants in their adult life. I think this is so important on several different fronts. You want them to think about what their future looks like if they don’t get through school. You want them to think about what they want their future to look like and what they need to do to get there.

I’ve given this advice so often lately – because high school is not fun for a lot of our kids, get them to focus on what they want out of life in the future. Help them discover new things if they don’t know what they want to do or to focus on their passion or the career or vocation they want to pursue. Get out there and talk to people. As my friend Sonia Casique of the college and career ready podcast advocates, start helping them network and shadow people that do what they think they might want to do.

I really believe being future-focused and letting them see what’s possible after high school is the key for many kids – whether they want to go to college or not, they have a future. And they can set their sights on that now and just get through high school to move on to that next chapter. And as I’ve said many times before – there’s a college for everyone so no, they do not need to be everything and do everything. If they’re struggling, they just need to finish – pass and finish and move forward.

Help them do that.

Okay, that it’s it for Speaking of Teens today. I’m so glad you could be here and if you’re new here – I’m so glad you found me and hope you’ll stick around.

You can even come join us in the Facebook group to chat about many of the issues I talk about in the podcast. The link is at the very bottom of the episode description as is the link to the show notes where you can find other resources mentioned today.

Until next time, remember, a little change goes a long way.