Ann

For several months now, I’ve been asking new members to the Facebook group what their biggest struggle is with their teen right now. And the answers run the gamut but over and over I see, lack of motivation, respect, communication, and connection.

And that connection thing’s especially difficult when your kid treats you like they’d rather be boiled alive than be near you.

So, how do you fix issues like this? Where do you start?

Well, today’s guest doesn’t mince words – she makes it really clear where we’re going wrong – in the way we think about parenting and the way we act. We’re talking everything from how to re-think your parenting goals to what connection really means.

So, hold on, this episode is more than worth an hour of your time. You’ll want to listen twice.

 

This is Speaking of Teens, the podcast that helps parents who are struggling to find peace and connection with their teens. My name is Ann Coleman; I’m an attorney turned parent educator and a mom who’s been there - and I’m on a mission to help you build a stronger relationship and decrease the conflict with your kid so you can help them grow into the young adult they’re meant to be.

 

My guest today is Aly Pain and if you’re the parent of a teen or tween and you’re on Instagram or TikTok and don’t follow her or haven’t at least seen her videos, I’d be shocked. Aly has hundreds of thousands of followers between those platforms and Facebook, and YouTube and she can give top notch advice about parenting teens in her sleep – I want to be her when I grow up.

But to give you real hope – which I really like to do…as a young adolescent, Aly, although an outwardly perfect teen – a gifted student - talented athlete, winning awards and pleasing her parents at every turn, she struggled with inner turmoil. And she ended up succumbing to her anxiety and the deeply entrenched feeling of not being good enough, of not being loved.

She began acting out in all sorts of risky ways and by the time she was 17 she’d developed an eating disorder and had attempted suicide. As she readily admits – she was the epitome of “troubled teen.”

But after getting through high school and moving on to college, she started on her own journey of self-discovery and spent years immersed in personal development programs - she became a certified life coach and then became a certified relationship systems coach. And for the past 16 years she’s been helping families create respectful, healthy relationships…especially the ones with teenagers.

Truly, I was so honored and excited to have her as a guest and for her to share her expert advice on parenting teens - so listen up, and get out your notepad if you can and take notes – or hit that save but and listen again later!

I started our conversation by asking Aly what she feels is the most significant mistake or misunderstanding that we have about parents teens.

 

Aly Pain

Sure. It's funny that you asked that because I was actually thinking about that the other day. And for, in my experience, and again, based on science and data, it's that, it's the perception that criticism is the best form of parenting because it in fact will not only motivate your child, get them to do what you want them to do, do less of what you don't want them to do. And make sure that they understand clearly how they're falling short of their potential, which as a good parent, you will have no part of. And that's all wrapped up in criticism. That's the biggest, which I want to say to anybody listening, it's not because you're a bad parent. It's not because you're horrible or damaged. It's because that's what we were taught. That was psychology of the day for both our parents, depending on your age or your grandparents.

And so it's very entrenched in our global system - as a relationship tool for change is criticism. And what we know, studied by Dr. John and Julie Gottman for the last, you know, 40 years or so is that criticism is actually toxic and it has a whole bunch of other side effects I will get into. And that what we also know scientifically and have for decades, it's just we're still new at getting the message out, is that in fact, the very thing that you want, not only as a relationship with your teen and you want for your teen, is achieved via connection, not criticism.

And I know when I say connection, everyone goes, oh, rolls their eyes and goes, oh, she's raising the snowflakes. Yeah, that's okay if you think that. Scientifically, actually, that's not true. I also have two incredible humans who are now adults that are far from snowflakes, but that's what often is heard. And that is why there is resistance to hearing that one thing.

 

Ann

Well, and I wish there was another word for it because I've actually searched for another word other than connection. I sometimes say, make your relationship stronger or an emotional connection. But I do think people hear that and they're like, oh my God, everybody talks about connection and connection this and connection that. I want my kids to live up to their potential, be good humans and be successful and do what I say. So what would you tell, as a parent, are those good goals to have to live up to their potential and be successful and do what you say? Or should we be thinking about that in another way?

 

Aly Pain

Yeah, and that's another part of the twisted, outdated parenting model, is that the do what I say, because you and I were, and many people listening were raised to believe that compliance equals respect. And in fact, they're not the same. I may be compliant and do what you ask, and I may have zero respect for you. I may be compliant because I respect you, but they are not mutually, they're not the same thing.

I may also be compliant because I'm afraid of you. And that's not connection. That is not a relationship. That is fear is not a relationship. So compliance to what you say, because again, we were raised to believe that compliance makes us a good parent because that was what was true was in the outdated model is if your parent if you're you say jump and your kid says how high you are A plus parents, not only that, you're probably a pretty amazing leader too. And we all know that relationally that's wildly untrue. Getting your child to do what you ask comes from connection, not from compliance. And that requires respect. Absolutely it does, but you don't get respect via compliance. So that's one of the problems. And it comes naturally from our own need for control.

 

Aly Pain

We want to have control because our ego tells us when we're in control, we're safe, we're better. You know, parenting is conflated with morality. So somehow, you know, we're just a better person. And let's be honest, if you are in control, you are safe from a great deal of the parent shaming that exists not only on social media, but in your friends and family. So yay, we go for control, which looks like compliance, which is a whole lot of BS.

The second part that I wanted to address, you said a phrase that so many parents say to me, is that it's my job as a parent to, for them, for my, to raise a child to live up to their potential. So here's how I address that. It's like when your child was born and handed to you, and as they began to, say the first like six to seven years, you know, you, they're becoming a human. So you're getting to know them in a way. And for sure, there's probably few people that know them better than their parents and you only know what you see and what you hear.

So at the same time they were born, what you might not have noticed is your brain has been building like a snow globe. You know, like the most that come out at Christmas, like they, and you shake them up and they have this like fairy tale scene in them. And maybe it's like people skating in a frozen pond and it's snowing, but it's magical. It's fantasia, euphoria, okay? And so when your teenager or your child, but mostly your teenager, is falling outside of your snow globe, your belief is that you need to use criticism or more control to gain compliance for them to get back to living up to their potential. Who created that snow globe?

So the reality is as much as you deeply love your child and of course you see how amazing they are and want them to know the same thing and realize all of those things, of course you do. You made that story up. There's absolutely no data that you have that says that's actually going to happen in the future. That is actually a physical metaphor.

Right, the snow globe of accounting. Accounting is all in the past. Yes, accounting can only be done up to right now. You can project your finances, but we have to have an actual and a budget. And what you're doing is using this snow globe and you're consistently comparing, which I want you to understand is that comparison is a thinly veiled version of criticism, which I just said in the beginning is that you're constantly comparing your child to your snow globe, which is yours based on what you want and you value and you like, not them building their own snow globe. Then your brain goes into fear, you go to fight or flight, and so you consistently use criticism to get them back inside your snow globe. So living up to their potential, that phrase alone is based on a negative feedback, disconnection of pointing out falling short failure using control and criticism to regain compliance.

So there's nothing about that is actually really healthy. It is no, it's not based in reality. And that's the hardest part. It is wonderful for you to see the amazing things about your child yet and call them out, affirm them every day. Fantastic. And no, I don't mean blowing smoke up their butt. Okay. If you see it, call it out. If you believe it and you're willing to go tell your friends about it, tell them.

Their job is to build their own snow globe. And that means they're gonna drop it a couple times and bust it on the floor and there's gonna be water everywhere and the confetti crap and glitter like that you can't clean up and it's gonna be on your feet and in your sheets and in your laundry. And then they're gonna change their minds a million times. So be prepared to help them build a thousand different snow globes because that's what teens do. It's like a child walking into a costume shop. There's all these different roles that they're trying on as their brain is developing, which is required for them to build individuality and autonomy to figure out who the heck they are. Their job is not to live inside your snow globe as you see it. And that is a massive point of disconnection. So those are the two key points, which is the hardest part because again, both of them lead to less control.

And then I just actually one last thing I wanted to say because I agree with you, there's all this connect, connect to yourself, connect to each other. Like it just gets, it's not, look, it does. It sounds like a frustrating club that isn't, that is supposed to be like all magical and amazing, but where the freak is the door? Can somebody show me a ticket? How do I get in? Stop telling me I'm supposed to do something when I don't even know, or stop telling me I'm supposed to do something when I'm not stupid.

I know damn well what connection is, excuse me. But that's, so yes, internally, you do know what connection is, because as a human being, you are wired for connection. Our brains are wired to be healthiest in connection. Lots of research about that I'm not gonna talk about. And so it can sound placating. It can sound like patronizing, like the connection. I get that. But I'm their parent first.

So then we go back. So I know you think you know what connection is. I just want to offer this. If you were raised at a time where a parenting model has not only been proven as, well, it would be unethical today, okay? And it can be emotionally traumatic and actually builds more disconnection and leads to some significant mental health concerns, then would it be possible that you don't know what connection is? Or that the version of connection that you even enjoyed and felt safe and normal for you may not be the best way to get what you want with your teen and have a relationship that you want.

So maybe...your definition of connection. Is it open to change at all? Are you willing to just simply have a look at it? Because that's what all of my, the foundation of all of my work is based on my three-step framework, all backed by science, and it's breaking connection down. So it's not this frustrating, mythical, mysterious word. I'm supposed to know what the heck that is. Breaks it down into three very distinct parts and then breaks it down into super step-by-step tangible action so that you can begin to say, oh, I'm gonna try this version of connection and then I can measure and see, and I don't have to guess on it, I don't have to do it alone. There's a map, there's a process, and then I can actually see, is that getting me the version of my teen and relationship with my teen that I want when I've been using the version of connection I learned and maybe...that wasn't working as well.

 

Ann

Yeah, God, there's so much. OK, so first of all, I heard you say the other day something about, you know, we don't know what we don't know. And I've said that myself. I'm like, you know, it's not your fault. It's not our fault that we didn't know these things because we grew up a certain way. And there are and maybe this is true even more so for people that grew up down south in the US. That's where I grew up. And in the Bible Belt.

And, you know, we, there's this mentality that if we are not putting the fear of God into our kids, so that they will snap to it and do what they're supposed to do and not do what they're not supposed to do, that we are falling down on our job. And connection is the last thing on that parent's mind. You know, even if maybe in the back of the mind, they think, you know, well, we need to have a good relationship there's no clue about how to do that. So when we talk about connection, I mean, tell people what you mean, because truly I know a lot of parents of teens, I see them talking about, you know, I can't even get my kid to tell me how school was today, or I can't even get them to answer a simple question. And if I say, oh, you know, you look pretty today, they're like, ah. So how do we connect with them when they're being such assholes?

 

Aly Pain

And they are, mm-hmm, yep, yep. And I don't encourage being a doormat either, at all. If there's one thing that I can assure you, if I were to go get my kids are home from university, they're downstairs right now, if I were to go get them up here and bring them up here and say, did you ever wonder what your mother thought or how she felt? I think they'd give you a hot hell no, because the boundaries are my thing.

So, okay, so connection. In order to maintain a relationship with a teenager, which, and this is, you know what, there's another little quick thing I wanna say in here. This is the hardest thing as a parent, because no matter how you parent, almost, no matter how you parent, when your child is a child, most things will work, because that's the function of their brain. And I think that's the biggest trap - is parents who are listening to this podcast or some of my videos or et cetera say, this is BS Ali, because it worked for 10 years. So now it's just them being the spawn of Satan. Like you weren't in my house, it worked. So really this is just them being intentionally defiant. And I understand that trap, I get it.

And so that's part of the other side of this is like you have data that your Ego which is intended to keep you safe by the way and away from change looks at me and says but you but it worked so by Right Right, and so there's that so I just want to say with compassion I get that whatever you did for the for the first eight to ten years probably did work and good for you

 

Aly Pain

It's like the teen years, like, they call your hand. No matter what cards you were playing when they were a teen, they're calling your hand now because the teen brain is so emotionally hyper reactive, hypersensitive by function of their brain, physiological brain development. And so whatever cards you had before, yeah, no, it's like calling them on the table now.

We're calling them. So it's really important. So connection changes distinctly because as a child, they are learning to human. And one of their greatest roles is to mimic you.

Okay, they are learning by mirroring. And so that also feeds our ego. I don't know about you, but that felt pretty good. Okay, so whatevs. So they're learning to mirror, to mimic, and they are constantly trying to seek your approval, which is why a lot of parenting methods work when they're kids, because they don't know any different. They don't have enough context of life. And so they're just like, did I do it right? Did I do it right?

And they want you to teach them and show them and help them and cause they're learning to human and you are there.

 

Ann

And it's so wonderful. It's so wonderful. Yeah.

 

Aly Pain

You're right. And you are their human. So you really don't get a true sense of connection when they're a child as is almost mandatory when they're a teen. Because connection as a teen is they don't give a crap about what you think. Because there's two different and simultaneous psychological processes going on at the same time during the adolescent brain development, which I call the hormone hijack. Number one is individuation. So remember I said they wanted to mirror you before and they wanted to be a mimic? They want no part of that.

So in individuating means figuring who they are as an autonomous human being, which they are. They are, even though they didn't act like it when they were a kid, now is time for them to figure out who they are. What do they believe? What do they value? What do they think is funny? What don't they think is funny? How do they want to address, dress, excuse me. How do they, what about hairstyles, shoes, friends, social, like all of that. They're figuring out who they are in the world.

And then at the same time, they're doing differentiation and guess what? The entire point, oh, this one's fun. The entire point of differentiation is for them to be different than you. That's right. And that is why they are right about everything and you obviously are wrong about everything and they know it all because they're supposed to push back against everything you taught them that you believe is right and good in the world from values and beliefs. They're supposed to push against that and make stupid, risky, novel choices in order to figure out who they are and what do they believe while you are being their safe place to land, not because you are going to tolerate necessarily being treated in less, in really unfriendly ways, not because you're supposed to make everything they're doing okay.

But let me just say for sure, if you're not the safe place to land, which is one key part of connection, if you are not the safe place to land, not because you rescue them, because you're like, yeah, looks like you got yourself in a tricky situation, that kind of sucks. What now? You're just, you're like, dude, I'm not gonna save you from it. I love you, I'm here. So what do you think? You know? And there's often significant natural consequences, let alone other consequences.

But you being the safe place to land. And so connection looks more like, let me, don't show me, let me, don't teach me, listen to me, I have my own way of doing it. Okay, don't lecture me, listen. That's how one of the ways you know that connection shifts. And also, they no longer ask, did I get it right? And that is freaking hard. What they ask, their greatest question in their heart is...Do you still love me? Not, is it okay if I behave this way and drink or like till I'm blacked out and have parties at your house and crash your car, get expelled from school, fail? They're not asking if that's okay. Let me be very clear. They're saying, do you? I'm a hot mess right now. And I know it, it's part of my brain development. Not much I can do about it. I'm hot messing it over here.

Do you still love me? Do you love me in my mess? That is their greatest question. And we didn't get that memo. And so connecting to them looks like, whew, big day, huh? OK. You know, I got this letter home from the school. I'm going to let you read it. And then let's sit and tell me what you, what do you think we should do? You know, you're riding shotgun. You're not driving the car anymore.

And the longer you try to drive the car, we just go down the path of the outdated parenting model. So connection shifts in a lot of ways. It shifts in the way that your teen wants a whole lot of autonomy. And that comes out often as sounding like spicy backtalk that like burns your eyebrows off.

And I'm not saying that you deserve to be treated in less than respectful ways. I'm saying that outdated parenting model looks like you shut that down right now because you got to make sure your teen does not for one second think that is okay in your household don't you ever speak to your elders that way in the whole fear of god thing so connection looks like wow i know as an adult with an adult brain now that you are going from 16 basic emotions and feelings to 88 your body and your brain the emotional excuse me, emotion part of your brain, have the capacity to experience and feel four and a half times the levels of emotion. But your executive function, the thinking brain is still wildly undeveloped and doesn't have the regulation or the brakes right now to stop or to perhaps really refine your expression of those emotions. So you sound like a professor and I am comfortable. It's just not like that.

What you get is a teenager whose brain is all gas and no breaks and that's because they're emotionally run. And so when they're spicy, your connection looks like, wow, like you got a lot going on in there. I really wanna’ hear what you have to say. Your feelings matter to me. And these specific words and phrases have crossed my line, like name calling, swearing at me, projecting it on me as if it is my fault. And I don't need to get defensive about it. I don't need to yell back at you and react and say, well, it's not my fault. You go to your room and you think about what you said and you don't come out. Because what we're saying, and this is again, is proven, what we're saying to them is that those feelings are not okay.

And this is what we know leads to significantly increased symptoms of anxiety, depression, isolation, um, anger management, the addiction, a lot of things. I'm not saying those are your fault. I'm saying that that it can lead to those things. And so connection looks like this is one of the hardest things I think: connection looks like allowing your teen to have big, uncomfortable emotions that you yourself were never allowed to have. And by the way, they're all human.

It's all human experience. 88 of them, all human. Now, if you do any research on it, none of it says that some are good or bad. None of it says that some are positive or negative. And none of it says that, like, I hate right or wrong. No, they're all human. It's just that you and I were actually raised as half humans. We were raised to only have the shiny, sparkly, friendly feelings that made other people feel good around us so we were pleasing and worthy of love and affection.

And we know the mental health impact of that. And so we're raising whole humans now, which means re-parenting ourselves, connecting, to sit in the discomfort of someone having feelings that you yourself were never allowed to have. Setting boundaries around what that looks and sounds like. You don't get to destroy my house. You don't get to, you know, dude, I'm here for it. I'm here for all of it. And here's my limit.

And then saying to your teen, when they cross that line, I love you, your feelings matter to me. I wanna hear what you're saying. And I'm just gonna take like a five minute break because I love me as much as I love you. And then I'm gonna come back and you had better keep your word and be back there in four minutes and 59 seconds. And so connecting looks like how do you allow them a human experience of emotions that we were never given and help them refine their delivery of that without shutting down their human experience.

That's another version of connection. Connection looks like, let's talk about the whole behavior spectrum. What is your teen doing and when did they think that was okay? Connection means understanding that 100% of behavior is driven by emotion. 100% of it. Connection means that you understand that in order for them to change their behavior because they're becoming autonomous beings, you will not get far.

If you simply pay attention to and attempt to control their behavior, that's like simply looking at the top of the iceberg and getting mad that it floats.

Okay, okay. Uh, it's the all the stuff under the surface, which is why it does what it does So you have to be able to like go under the water and look at all of that hot mess emotion under there Connect with that emotion because what and this is why I do what I do and what is the science-backed methods that I use in my programs is that when you connect with your teens emotions, you actually help them to process their choices and fundamentally develop their executive function in a healthy way with you as their mentor, okay? And that creates lasting behavior change. Because otherwise when you pay purely attention to the behavior and you're trying to change it, now you're on this constant, I call it the consequence carousel. It's like, it's Groundhog Day.

 

Aly Pain

And they do a behavior and you consequence it because you're a good parent and you're not letting that go. So outdated parenting model. So you consequence it immediately. Behavior, consequence, behavior, consequence, behavior, consequence. How many times are we going to do that? And yet the behavior changes, but only in the short term because your teenager is smart. They're going to do whatever it is you asked in order to get back whatever privileges that they lost. We also know that increases conflict, it lowers respect, which I thought was what you were aiming for, lowers respect, it lowers, it disconnects, it lowers, sorry, communication, they shut down more, they stop sharing, and it actually increases defiance. Nothing really changes. And, and, and again, you and I were raised in well, if I'm just more fearful and more controlling, they will change. And I understand that I was raised in it. I get it. I started doing that with my kids because I'm like, I didn't want to do it. It didn't feel right, but it's what I knew. Okay. Yet again, that is not where lasting behavior changes. So that connection, those are the three kind of big ways that connection. Yeah.

 

Ann

And that makes so much sense. I mean, I don't know. I think there are some people out there who like intuitively know these things and like know how to deal with emotions. I'm sure there are because John Gottman wouldn't have discovered them. But I mean, it's such a foreign concept, I think, to so many people. And so many people think that, you know, what you're talking about is the opposite.

Still, they will argue about it, that it is the opposite of what they should do. Because if my kid is not, you know, fearful in some way and afraid of getting these consequences, then what? But then you see them also, you know, at the same time say, I have taken away everything I know to take away, taken the door off the hinges and they're sleeping on the bare floor. And yet they're still doing what they were doing. And that's the situation I got myself into was, you know, the consequencing and the arguing and the yelling and, and it just, the behavior got worse and worse and worse. But we're not able to realize what we're doing wrong because we've always been told that's the way you do it. I hate that there can't be some kind of, you know, announcement to the whole world to say this is not how you do this.

But, you know, do you know many people that actually know this intuitively or do most parents, I mean, make us feel a little bit better about this, or do most parents need a little training in this?

 

Aly Pain

Oh, heck yeah. I mean, I do know, I think I can count on three fingers in my lifetime. Not right now, like in my lifetime in my young 20s. One of my friends when I was a teen, who just kind of was like, no, I'm not gonna do it that way. And I was like, what? Like, like, I want to live with you. And I love you. But I don't know why. And what are you even talking about? So

You just pointed to something that I think is absolutely pivotal for parents to hear. Because we also know the majority of us, as in like 99% of us, are going to go through, should we choose to change? And that's something you're curious about. There is a process of reparenting yourself that happens simultaneously as you re-parenting or changing your parenting with your child or your teen. And so it's not for the faint of heart. Again, you don't have to do it, you don't have to try and figure it out alone. Doesn't have to be a mystery and it doesn't have to feel complicated. But it's not like a cracker jack box prize at the bottom where you just eat something tasty and then find the prize. I would never tell you that. That's why even my most in-depth program is like minimum of like eight weeks.

And then I support for another like two, three months after that in support, because it's, you can learn the content and be walking it out and everything, but yeah, it takes a change and it's messy. And I think there's still this horrific expectation that we're going to be perfect at it. And we compare ourselves. You compare yourselves to TV shows. My parents tell me this all the time. They compare themselves to TV shows and movie parents and people they see on Instagram who are doing this whole new parenting thing, and that they're failing at it.

And I'm like, no, you're not. If you are in the hot mess and you are wondering if it's working, you're probably on the right path. Because you're being open to something that you didn't grow up in, your brain doesn't consider familiar, and now you're trying to install it with your kids. So, heck yeah, this takes, it's a process and it, and even when it's a hot mess, you're still on the right path. I just I just want to say that.

There's a couple things also I want to add to this that I think are key is that there's processes to change that again, you and I were sold this magical version of change, right? That is really damaging because and it breaks my heart because great parents and I think all parents are caring and loving parents, you know, are coming to me and their confidence is so low because they've tried things and they haven't worked. And so they believe that either a really good tool is dumb and broken and doesn't work and or usually it's that they think they've failed. And that is, I never, ever, ever want that to happen.

So there's this thing of change that we need to understand too, is that when you go to change, I call it, it's a three bucket system. There's two, three bucket systems. There's two of them, okay? And they're kind of simultaneous. The first is your awareness bucket, which is when you're learning, your awareness bucket has to overflow, okay? Your behavior bucket so you can know all the things you know and this is a proven part of any change process you can feel like you know it and then after the incident you'll be like why didn't they do that I know that I did okay that is what's happening when your awareness bucket is over half full but it hasn't filled enough to overflow into the behavior bucket so your own behavior is not changing yet that's normal it's okay - give yourself some grace that you even identified it after. Yay, you.

Now, once your awareness bucket overflows, you will start to notice after the fact that you did behave differently. You did say things differently. Here's the frustrating part. Your behavior bucket needs to full, fill and overflow before you see a change in your teenager. And so you've got an entire second bucket you're filling going, this isn't working, this isn't working, this is stupid, this isn't working. And then you turn around.

Teenagers, because of the nature of their brain, are so skittish that if they don't see consistency until you feel like a broken record and you walk the same path, there's worn in your shoes, your hallway, your clothes, everything is the same, they will not trust it and they will not following it, no thank you sir.

So you filled your awareness bucket, now it's starting to fill and then begin to overflow your behavior bucket. And that's when the first bucket is where you make up you must be a failure or the tool must be broken. The second one is where you make up you definitely are failing and or now it's definitely your teen that's the bad apple. Neither one are true. Then it overflows into the third bucket, which is where you begin to see some of (because we don't do compliance), your teenager’s behavior begins to shift in a very nonlinear way because they are an autonomous human being in a relationship with you. It is not an object that you are controlling, but you begin to see their behavior change. And that, but you've already gone through those first two buckets. And this is what I walk parents through step by step, all backed by science really like methodically. And so that's why it's important to get support so that you don't make up those stories. And then you, all your friends are being like, well, you should run me and you know, if you just got a handle on it.

 

Ann

Yeah. And you go right back. Yeah.

 

Aly Pain

And so you turn back because of the outdated model being projected on you consistently. Now about that outdated model, this is the other thing that I wanted to mention about this. Because that outdated model is still wildly pervasive in education institutions, so many institutions in our lives, work, families, all the things, okay? It's still, and again, it was just proven in 1965. So I'm just gonna just give you, that's a number of years ago, okay?

Um, when you like your example that you gave and thank you for sharing that I did some of that when my kids were little as well. Certainly not perfect over here. And we go double down on the model we know that feels safe. It feels familiar, even if it doesn't feel right, because it's like, well, it's always right.

 

Ann

It's easier. You know, it comes out of us easier.

 

Aly Pain

It's always easier to do what you know. And that's how our brains are wired, by the way. That's how our brains are wired. So we double down on what we knew. And then even when it feels hard and it's not quite working, letting go of what you know feels terrifying. It triggers fight and flight in your own brain. So then you see wackadoodle ladies like me, women like me on the internet saying, do something different. And you're like, hell no, I'm not. It's already hard enough hanging on to the thing I got. I'm not letting go of this.

So this is what's happening that also breaks my heart. Because you don't know a different way, your brain only knows what you know, okay? You've already tried doubling down on that. Or it assumes that crazy ladies like me on the internet are talking about and touting 180 degrees. Do different - your brain hears as do opposite. Because you don't have a concrete model for anything. So that's all your brain knows. And so what you hear is, oh yeah, just go be like permissive parents and raise some entitled lazy brat who like talks to me like I'm, you know, and is those young 20s who doesn't show up for work because they're having a mental health day. I am not raising a kid like that.

And so then you hang on tighter to the outdated model because what you are hearing is the only story, it is not the truth, that your brain is making up is that there are people telling you need to do this differently. And the story you have about what they, I mean, is the opposite.

And then parents, great, amazing, caring, loving parents want change, they're like, this isn't working. They keep saying there's something else. They keep saying to connect, connect. So because there's no framework for what you aimed for, your brain overrides you. It's not because you're not intelligent. That was never it. And takes you to the opposite, which is permissive parenting. And then things go off the rails equally because what you just let go of was a fear of letting go, a fear of fear of losing control.

Permissive parenting is a fear of conflict. They're both run by fear. So you've tried controlling them, and you've tried being their friend, and guess what? Neither works. I know. And then you look back at people like me on the internet and go, you're screwed. You are crazy. And what I'm trying to say is I'm the person on the highway on the dirt road with waving a cardboard sign, because the world hasn't caught up yet. And I don't at all make up I’m the only one standing there, please. I'm just using an example. There's thousands of us standing there waving our arms at gorgeous parents driving back and forth between controlling parenting and permissive parenting and going, well, they keep saying it's here, but it's not here. And I'm like, but where is...

And where we are standing, and I am privileged to feel as though I get to share this message based on my own life experience as a teen, as a very troubled teen, and then having raised two children and helping parents for 16 years, is that what I have always been talking about is a scientifically proven middle ground. It's only a 90 degree shift. It's not a 180.

So I want to, if you're listening to this and go, blah, I tried, it's so stupid, it didn't work. Maybe you were on the right path, but you were in the three bucket method, but then turned around before you got to the, enough of the third bucket. And maybe, just maybe, you didn't have a proven framework to put around your change. And so what your brain did, because that's normal, is just do the opposite. And so what you've been doing is this 180 thing without knowing it's actually only a 90. But if you don't have that framework, that's what you think crazy people like me are talking about.

 

Ann

And I just, I love this because it makes so much sense. And I heard you say this somewhere recently about the, well, the buckets, first of all, that's brilliant because that makes so much sense. And then not doing the 180 because you're right. I think people do hear it and think, oh my God. I mean, if I don't do it the way I'm doing it, they're gonna run all over me and they're gonna do anything they want and I'm gonna lose total control and they're gonna end up on drugs and they're gonna end up dead and I can't do that. So I never thought about that. Yeah, but it's not, I mean, I never thought about the fact that we automatically go to that opposite thing, but that's true. I think people, yeah, do think that, oh, well, she's saying just abandon everything I know to be true, but gosh, that makes so much sense and that's so true, small changes. And let me just say about the bucket thing. I love that because the awareness piece, I mean, that's

 

Ann

That's where, you know, that's where I was. And I'm just sitting here thinking as you were talking about it going, oh my God, that's so true because I was in that part of, oh my God, okay, I just read this chapter in this book and holy hell, I've been doing everything wrong. And now I know. And then I started thinking about my background and my family history and oh my gosh, yeah. And emotions and oh, they did not validate my emotions. And now I get why I am so out of control emotionally. I have no emotional awareness. I don't even know what I'm mad about right now, and I don't know why I'm trying to control this thing, and I don't know why I can't get un-mad for hours and hours. So realizing all that, and then as I did that, and then moved on, that bucket filled up, and then I started trying to behave differently, but boy was that difficult, and it took every ounce of everything and I did mess up several times when I first started trying to be different. I'd mess up and you're right. I'd go back and I'd like, oh my god, I can't believe I said that or and then as I was trying more and more I would stop myself and right in the middle of everything and go, oh my god what am I supposed to say? What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do? And I couldn't think of it and I would like make myself little cheat sheets and leave things everywhere and create mantras in my head.

 

Aly Pain

Yeah!

 

Ann

And finally, you know, and then you're right. I think kids, when we've been a certain way all this time, especially with my son, because he was 18, he was turning 18, he's like, what the heck are you doing? And where is my mother? And why are you not doing this? And I think, yes, suspicious, exactly. Like, okay, what's going on here? And so I think they kind of doubled down.

 

 

Ann

in the beginning and they're like, mm, yeah, not doing this. I don't know what game you're playing, but I'm not gonna play it with you.

 

Aly Pain

Yes, very suspicious. Suspicious, yes, because they don't trust.

 

Ann

Yeah, and then, but oh, thank God, I had the fortitude to keep going because it really, and maybe because he was on the cusp of, you know, his brain was more developed than a 16 year old, you know, he was getting there and I think he kind of jumped on the bandwagon pretty soon. But what I wish I had done and tell me if you think this is something parents can do because I've kind of said this a couple times now and I've since this all happened with my son he's 23 just turned 23 a couple days ago. But I have apologized and I have apologized and I have told him what I did wrong and I have told him what I should have done and I have talked to him about I mean he's all into all this now and he gets it. But I wish I had said, I've been doing this wrong. I've been coming at this wrong with you and I'm gonna try to be different. And I'm going, is that a good way to do it or should we just change? I mean, what do you think? Like if things have been really bad, and we've gotten ourselves into that corner that I backed myself into with all the punishment and the control and all that. I mean, if we finally do realize that we've messed up and we need to change, should we let our kid in on it and maybe help them hold us accountable? Or how do you see that?

 

Aly Pain

Yeah, so yes and no. When you and your teenager are really disconnected, whether it's for a moment or a phase or you know, it's been going on for a while, because the teen brain is very immature, and in their four and a half times expanding emotions are far more susceptible to toxic expression of emotion than healthy because that's what our primal brain does, right?

Um, I think it's fantastic. And I just want to say this. You were never bad or doing things wrong, like ever, never once. You were doing the very best that you knew how, and you were doing it so great. It was an outdated model. You were never bad or broken. The model was bad and broken.

So I just want to like remove that for a minute. I know my gosh, if you were willing to use any model that hard, how could, it makes you an amazing parent. It makes you an amazing parent. You were willing to try any model that hard, let alone change.

 

Ann

Yeah, that makes me feel a little bit better. Yeah.

 

Aly Pain

I would say to your teen, if it feels like there's a level of connection enough there, or even safety enough, because if there's a lot of disconnection, anything you say to your teen that can come across as vulnerability, your teen is so backed up, they will use that vulnerability against you as they're in survival mode. And so they are lashing out at you any way they can to feel safe.

And that doesn't make you, that isn't gonna support you to feel safe and I need you to feel safe first. My concern is you first and foremost and walking and loving you through this change so that you can love your teen differently. Not better, not just differently. So what I might say to my teen is, you know what? I'm exhausted from, and I think I've realized that the way I'm doing this isn't working for me.

Notice I'm not saying you anywhere. This doesn't feel right. It's not working for me. I am starting a process to learn a different way of parenting and I'm just letting you know because it might, I'm not gonna get it right. I'm never aiming for perfect. I'm going for different. That's what I'm going for is different. And I'm just letting you in that things are going to change and I am most certainly committed to having them change for the better because I love you and I want a relationship with you.

 

Ann

That's wonderful.

 

Aly Pain

That's a way of expressing what you are doing via 100% ownership in your language that is not requiring them to play along. It's not requiring them to agree. It's not requiring them to give a crap or like what you're saying. They might roll their eyes at you and go, whatever.

Great, like yeah, I'll wait till I see it. So don't like the hook there that I wanna call you on the hook there is are you looking for their approval?

Because if you're disconnected from your teen, you're not going to get it. You are purely making a communication. I do not recommend allowing them to hold you accountable because they don't know what you're learning. And you're learning it from a very different perspective than they would accept it or be learning it. So it's not the same. Making the communication about an intention from an ownership perspective that requires zero reaction or response from them is going to change your mind.

So don't be looking for their approval. Like, oh, thanks, mom, that's great. No, if you want approval, honey, you come get it from somebody else, I'll give you the approval, but I'm not going, but if you're only doing this for someone's approval, mine, your child, or anybody else's, then you've got the wrong motivation.

 

Ann

Oh my gosh – I want to recap every word Aly said! I couldn’t even decide what to say here to wrap this up – every word was pure gold. So, #1 – listen again.

But I think one of the most important things she pointed out was how difficult this process of changing our parenting is – that it can be really hard to keep going until you begin to see that change in your teens and in your relationship that you long to see. That it’s messy and you’re gonna think it’s not working or that you’ve somehow failed.

So, remember what she said about the bucket system – I think this is genius:

The first bucket is your awareness bucket. It’s when you first become aware that you need to change and you’re learning what you need to do and your trying things out but you can’t remember or don’t have the emotional regulation to do it yet – but you’re aware of that and you keep learning and keep trying until at some point that bucket overflows…

into the 2^nd bucket…and now you’ve started noticing after the fact that, oh wow, I did keep my cool, I did listen, I did not lecture, wow – I think I may be getting this right…but you’re still not seeing change in your teen…that second bucket’s not filled yet to overflow into your teen’s bucket – the 3^rd bucket

And this is the point where you’ll want to give up. You may think, “well, this isn’t working – it’s never going to work” and want to go back to your old ways, to what’s easiest and what you know best and what you’ve always done, which wasn’t working in the first place and is why you were trying this new way of parenting.

But you can’t gave up too soon – you’ve GOT to wait until you have that 2^nd bucket to capacity where it overflows into the 3^rd bucket - your teen’s behavior bucket…

You’ve got to get that 2^nd bucket filled – you’ve got to be consistent – your teen’s not going to trust it – they’re going to resist change until they see you really mean it – that you’ve committed to it, that you’re doing it over and over and over – and even then you may see a tiny bit of positive change, then they go back – you will see some back and forth – as Aly said, it’s not a linear thing. Do not give up in the middle of your second bucket – stay consistent – keep learning and practicing – keep going and get that 2^nd bucket to overflow where you see that consistent change in your teen and your relationship. You CAN do this.

 

I want to thank Aly Pain for being with me today – she’s such a pro. You can find all of Aly’s links in the show notes – through the episode description where you’re listening now.

That’s it for Speaking of Teens today – if you’re new here, be sure and come back on Friday for a new episode. We drop new shows on both Tuesdays and Fridays and in between you can come join us in the Facebook group – the link is at the very bottom of the show description where you’re listening. And thank you so much for listening today – I appreciate you so much and if you found the episode valuable please consider sharing it with a friend. The goal is to help as many parents as possible so please share the love with your friends.

And until next time, remember, a little change goes a long way.